Re: not enough real programmers? (was Re: Byte Magazine: 18 Vintage issues, 1985-1986)

[Russell Shaw <russell@martin.com.au>]

Couldn't agree more with your conclusions.

I used to work for the fun of it, but now the last pay rise was a long time ago.

I thought we could make lots of money if I could redesign this product to be
easier and cheaper to build/test/calibrate. However, management would not supply
me with some quite meagre requirements to do things easier (ie: a PC, and some
mechanical hacking hardware), so to do what I need would take a much longer time.

I typically do more productive/high-tech things on weekends than I ever do at
work (and I would call this place one of the more innovative companies).

Only now have they seen what I can accomplish with the latest radio-modem
project, and I am leaving after it.

New employees often start in a wage/slave for fun mode. Then dissatisfaction/
impatience/hate mode in companies that won't make improvements for creative
employees to produce more *useful* work that will bring in the bucks to
justify claims for higher pay.

If you are good at what you do and think a lot about what you could do/build,
you can convert yourself to a consultancy mode/mentality, as I have.

I am leaving to work on numerous innovations/inventions, funded by the odd
widget-making consultancy jobs. It helps to have low over-heads. I beleive
in making lots of money first, family crap later. Its not for everyone tho.

I have made up my mind that if I was going to be employed somewhere, I would
immediately discard places that use HR droids for interviewing. I'd rather
have an entrepeneurial technologist in control. These outfits are good for
doing consulting work, because they are more realistic. I hope all HR droid
outfits go bust.


Victoria Welch wrote:
> 
> Howard S Shubs wrote:
> >
> > In article <7okklr$irv$0@216.39.144.179>, Victoria Welch <vikki@oz.net> wrote:
> >
> > >  I've had more than my fair share of jobs that "required the extra
> > >effort" from you only that took 12+ hours a day commonly.  My last job I
> > >walked out of after 150 hours of unpaid overtime in four months and
> > >constant harrasment and abuse for more (she'll work the extra time to do it with a hex editor, why spend money I can feed my Ferrari with (really!)).  It wasn't the first one :-(.
> >
> > You stayed a lot longer than I would have.  These days, I don't believe in
> > overtime unless it's -very- rare, paid or not.  I've got a contractor
> > mentality; unpaid work time is a contradiction in terms.
> 
> The final straw was after one 30+ hour day (gotta get this out to the
> client by tomorrow morning - the client had finally gotten hostile with
> the project they had already paid for constantly being half-arsed done
> and left on the back burner.)  I had busted arse all night to get it
> done (and done right as in finished *correctly*!), I was starting to
> seriously drag and I told them I was heading home to get some rest and
> was asked "are you leaving already?" - it was a standard question, no
> matter how long you had been there in any consecutive period.  When I
> came back the next day, I got the cold shoulder and evil eye for not
> being a team player and I was talked to about my attitude.
> 
>   I've quit doing it after that.  Then I had a *real* "attitude problem"
> and was harrased accordingly.  I don't have a problem doing some extra
> time *occasionally* ?hit happens and I care *a lot* about the work I put
> my name on.  The constant promises that this was a temporary crunch
> paled after 4 months and no let up in sight.
> 
> I had one SA job (briefly) that the owner (a workaholic who accomplished
> little, but thought he was a techie after being out of doing the actual
> work for God knows how long) used to reguarly page the SA staff at 0300
> to see who would respond (no problems, just an attitude check) and then
> if you didn't it either got you harrased and it certainly figured into
> your evaluations and "desireability" to the company.  After about a half
> dozen of these and driving in (an hour each way) to deal with "the
> problem", I kept carrying the pager on my belt and the battery in my
> purse :-).  Turnover there was very high.
> 
> Problem with small companies and (frequently) incompetent management
> with cash flow problems (because of that incompetence) is that you *do*
> end up keeping them alive far longer than they should be - keeping a
> paycheck coming in once you get trapped in this kind of situation
> becomes a priority :-).  Trying to take off time to interview is a
> nightmare (some of them will call your doctor to check).  If they even
> suspect, you could be on the street (I was "fired" after submitting my
> resignation).  None of this, of course, is even hinted at when you
> interview, every damn one of them: "you'd be lucky to work for us since
> we take such good care of our employees".  That has become a big red
> flag in my job search :-).
> 
> Even with more of these than seems rational, I still have a good work
> attitude and ethic - I love what I do and honor is important (I should
> have been a Klingon <grin>).  I've started asking questions at
> interviews and asking to talk with the current staff (something they
> rarely let you do without being there).  I don't do this in a hostile,
> threatening or derisive manner but it becomes pretty obvious that they
> think I am going to be a problem.  I give far more than a good days work
> for a days pay and am generally a lot more understanding of business
> problems and necessities than most people (experience counts for
> something :).
> 
> It would seem that unless you sugar coat everything in job searching,
> you *will* have problems getting past the HR folks (there are no bad
> jobs only bad employees).  It makes it tough to be honest as they
> interpet you as a "problem waiting to happen" when such is NOT the case.
> 
> So I am unemployed again.  This time I am being really picky about where
> I go to work (not hostile, not negatively aggressive - I am learning to
> play their game).  It is tough being broker than I have ever been, but I
> really want to find a job where I can contribute in my usual style and
> get some compensation for it.  Having more time off other than just to
> crash for a few hours would be nice also :-). I also want a place I can
> stay and grow, with my provable work history, it makes things difficult,
> but not impossible :).  In the process I pick up occasional consulting
> jobs and study a lot.  I can't afford to go back to school at this time,
> although I am looking into grants/scholarships, but probably not much
> chance of getting one.
> 
> There are worse things than being broke and unemployed.  One person at
> my last job once asked me over lunch (one day when we actually got to
> leave the building) "is slavery really dead?" - he has a family and is
> trapped there, I have a lot more sympathy for him, last I heard he was
> still working 16+ hour days (and frequently weekends) under incredibly
> pressure, he is good, he is one incredibly nice person, but unless he
> gets ahead (unlikely with what he is being paid) and can just quit,
> he'll loose everything if he just quits, the only way he'll ever be able
> to interview. He won't lie to them to get a day/afternoon off (although
> those folks lie to the employees daily).  Sigh...
> 
> Before someone accuses me of being cynical and negative, I'm not, just
> tired of taking anything to get the bills paid.  I am good and I am
> dedicated and would like a decent working environment.
> 
> I am hoping to find a job in embedded systems, I got introduced to these
> through people I knew from ham radio who were working in the field.
> I've done programming in a business environment for AGES and producing
> another report / entry / query for the bean counters pales deeply
> compared to getting a microcontroller project going!  I just finished a
> PIC project that I had a wonderful time doing it!  I've found occasional
> consulting work doing this (and a lot of offers that don't pay for
> themselves) and have enjoyed it most thoroughly!
> 
> Unfortunately my resume doesn't reflect a lot of this so getting that
> door open is proving to be somewhat difficult, especially in view that I
> am pretty much self trained (although I have had some *wonderful*
> mentors).  I've been told by people I know doing this that I know more
> than enough to get hired, but it hasn't happened yet ("at 50 you are
> applying for an *entry level position*?  You should have been in
> management years ago!  What is wrong with you?").  Management I can do,
> but I have a lot more fun, satisfaction and interest being in the
> trenches :-).  Sigh...
> 
> Take care, Vikki.
> --
> Victoria Welch, WV9K, DoD#-13, Net/Sys/WebAdmin SeaStar.org,
> vikki.oz.net
> "Walking on water and developing software to specification are
> easy as long as both are frozen" - Edward V. Berard.
> Do not unto others, that which you would not have others do unto you.

--

Regards,
    Russell