Re: Live Apple ... the Power Box

[Rubywand <rubywand@swbell.net>]

kws@delphi.com writes ...
> 
> Rubywand <rubywand@swbell.net> writes:
> 
> >     How about this: Apple arranges with WDC to produce an 80MHz version
> >of the 65C816. They stick the new microprocessor, 64MB of RAM, a 6.5GB
> >hard disk, 32x CDROM drive, 1.4MB disk drive, a good fast 3D-capable
> >video chipset plus XVGA output, wavetable sound chipset, high-speed
> >serial I/O, game controller port, and 8-bit interface into a compact
> >tower case. Call it the "Apple II Power Box" and sell it to ...
> 
> ROTFLMAO.  Why the hell would anyone make a new computer and use a crippled,
> non-existant 80Mhz processor?  I *like* the 65816, but it lacks power
> (no multiplication or floating point support), registers (3 general purpose
> ones compared to 32 or more in modern chips), is 16 bit, can only access
> 16 megabytes of RAM (so 64MB wouldn't do much good), uses a queer
> segmentation scheme, has a 64k stack, and lacks memory protection.
>

     If Intel can make a 400MHz Pentium, WDC should be able to make an
80MHz 65xxx given the proper incentive.

     Why a 65xxx? Lots of reasons. One is that you immediately attract
the attention of anyone with a background of working with the 6502,
65C02, 65802, and 65816. One of Apple's challenges will be to attract
advocates and users; starting off with a 65xxx helps.

     Another reason is that a 65xxx uP is as close as you can get to
RISC without going RISC. It is a very efficient core as uP's go.

     RISC is an obvious choice for ready-to-go pure speed; but, costs
could end up being significantly higher. Besides, part of the idea of an
Apple break with the PC road to doom is to cash in on the II mythos. A
computer built around a 65xxx establishes a link with the II series. A
commitment to the 65xxx also gives WDC an incentive to accelerate series
development.

     Memory management features such as protection can be handled by
peripheral IC's. So could implementation of fp multiply. Perhaps such
features could become part of the speeded 65xxx along with an address
relative JSR. Perhaps some features could be incorporated in later
generations.

     Segmentation, of course, is not 'pretty'. Neither is bank
switching. They do, however, facilitate more compact instructions. More
compact instructions facilitate speed and efficient use of memory. As
for stack space, a 64MB '816 system would have at least 256k max
available stack.

     Granted, as memory becomes cheaper and more data is in true 16-bit
or 32-bit chunks, it makes sense to go to something much larger than a
64k segment size. Going with the '816 for the first Power Box does
entail some trade offs. That would be true whatever the core chosen.

     Perhaps the 65xxx chosen will not have to be an '816. 64-bit
registers and 32-bit Data-- a 65C3264-- might be doable in a relatively
short time frame. Still, time is important. One reason for specifying
the '816 is that it is an existing design. 

     In any case, an 80MHz 65C816 system with on-motherboard video
subsystem amounts to very nice computer. It would wipe many current
PC's-- perhaps most; PC's Slots are a notable bottleneck. It would be a
respectable start. In 2-3 years-- the normal life of today's systems--
Apple could offer a new Power Box model along with motherboard upgrades
for current owners.  
  


> Apple's done a lot of brain dead things, but they're not goin to release
> any more Apple II computers.  There will never be a "GS+."

 ....

     Power Box is more "+" than "GS+". All sorts of users will have
machines which can hook up, including students with their Apple
notebooks and GS users. 
     Certainly, Apple has made many bad strategy decisions. Battling
clone PC's as a PC maker is among the worst. Whether or not something
like Power Box will be may depend upon whether or not Apple wants to
stay in the computer business.

     As just another maker of expensive PC's, Apple is losing and will
continue to lose in a competition where shoppers see both suspect
compatibility and a big price tag. Power Box gives Apple a fresh start
with a platform it can control-- one it can market as a genuine
alternative to PC's.



Rubywand