Re: Problem with //e?, Software & Networking

[mjmahon@aol.com (Michael J. Mahon)]

Alistair J Ross wrote:

>Hello comp.sys.apple2,

And hello back!  ;-)

>  This is my first posting to the group as I have finally been able to
>acquire the machine I've been longing to get for a long time now: The
>venerable Apple ][.
>
>I am now the proud owner of not only an Apple ][ EuroPLUS, but an Apple
>][e.

Congratulations.

>Firstly, the Europlus machine is the machine which I can get working - it
>boots up with a cute beep, screen reading 'Apple ]['. The Disk ][
>drives were on the Apple IIe, but I swapped them over to the plus for now.
>When I switch the unit on now, the Apple seeks the drive for around 5
>seconds and then sits there blankly. I need to hit RESET to get the ]
>prompt (which I presume to be the AppleSoft prompt, please let me know if
>I'm wrong). 

The machine is attempting to boot from the empty disk drive.
This is completely normal.

Yes, the "]" prompt is from Applesoft.  Without any disk OS, you
can type in and edit Applesoft BASIC programs.  To save them
without a disk OS you could plug in a cassette recorder, but I
expect that you'll want to get DOS 3.3 running instead.  ;-)

>My knowledge of all of the OS variants for the Apple are sketchy, here is
>what I have gleaned from various places on the net:
>
>	First Apple ][: Integer Basic
>  	Apple II Plus : AppleSoft Basic
> 	Apple IIe: AppleSoft & DOS 3.3 or ProDOS
>
>I believe also that DOS is available for all apples, it just came with the
>Apple IIe (in ROM?).

Not exactly.  All Apple II machines come with a version of BASIC
in ROM.  The Apple ][ came with Integer BASIC, and later machines
came with Applesoft.

The disk OS is not in ROM, but is bootstrapped from a disk drive.
Disregarding early versions of DOS, the standard version is 3.3, and
it runs on all Apple II machines.

The advanced disk OS is ProDOS, which requires at least a 64KB
machine (for example, your Europlus will need a 16KB "language
card" installed).  Later versions of ProDos (version 2.x) also require
a 65C02 processor (as in an enhanced //e).

>Anyway here come the questions:
>
>Q1)I want to know how I can use the disk drive on the EuroPLUS -- do I
>need to obtain a 5.25" floppy with a copy of DOS on it or am I just being
>silly? 

That's exactly what you need.

>Q2) I have an Acorn BBC Micro and an old PC both which use Double Sided
>Double Density Disks (PC formats to 360K). Can I use these disks in the
>Disk][ drives? What do I need to do to use them?

With a bootable DOS 3.3 disk, you can INIT (format) these disks as
bootable DOS disks with plenty of free space for your programs and
data.

>Q3) I am in the middle of putting together a computer museum (thus the
>pull to acquire all of the old hardware I can). The museum is not for my
>own personal pleasure - I hope to exhibit the systems I have at the
>National Museum of Scotland, Edinburgh. I want to achieve a number of
>things with all of the platforms where possible:
>
>	* Use the machines to a level that the original manufacturers never
>	thought of, far less thought were possible.
>	* Use the machines with their original software - to demonstrate how
>	software has evolved and how hardware has evolved (with the addition of
>	how open hardware architecture such as the Apple ][ and the IBM PC have
>	made big changes to the hardware world).
>
>The first point made me think about the possibility of networking /
>internetworking the Apple ][. I am aware of it's limitations, but I've
>seen computers such as the IBM PC XT with 512K ram and 1x 5.25 FDD on the
>web (as a web server!), would it be possible however limited to connect
>an Apple 2 to a Network (Ethernet), or the Internet? Has it ever been done?
>I saw yesterday, a gent who has made a card recently for $105 USD which
>connects IDE-ATA drives or CF memory cards to the Apple ][, which is
>awe-inspiring!

The CFFA card is, indeed, a fine card.  It allows a completely
self-contained, no-moving-parts "hard disk" in an Apple II.  The
current CFFA does not work in the ][ or ][+, but a version of that
card that will work on older machines is in beta now.

WRT, networking:  yes, you can get an Ethernet card for an Apple
II, but unless it is a IIgs, there is currently no software for it.  Your
best bet for getting an older Apple II on the net is to use it as a terminal
to a PC or other machine.  I'm sure you'll get more advice on this topic
than you want!  ;-)

>Q4) Back to the Apple 2e, When the unit powers up, the display is a run of
>moving ASCII chars (blocks and @ symbols). These do not go away, and no
>'POST' beep is evident from the unit. Obviously there are many things that
>could be wrong, but does anyone know exactly what this problem could be,
>is it something that happens a lot with these machines, or will I be
>needing a multimeter to help me out. I've already done the obvious things
>- pull out all the expansion cards and see if that does anything - it
>doesnt, although, I have noticed that the ASCII chars don't seem to scroll
>any more.

I can't be sure that I understand what you are seeing.  (In fact,
to paraphrase the Firesign Theater, "That's metaphysically absurd--
how can _I_ know what _you_ see?"  ;-)

OK, kidding aside, what you describe could be the //e self-test code,
which runs if the solid-Apple key is pressed during a Reset, or if the
keyboard is not plugged in (inside the machine).

If it's something else, then it's "weird" behavior.  Start by carefully
prying up each of the socketed chips a little (a millimeter is plenty)
and then firmly re-seating them.  This will remove oxide which may
be causing imperfect contact.

Then do the same with all connectors (though it seems like you've
already "cleaned" the peripheral slots).

>Q5) Ive looked on Ebay etc but can't really find any cheap software to get
>me started for the Apple ][, anyone know good places to get it? Especially
>in the UK?

Wow, you must be kidding!  At any given instant there are a hundred
or so Apple II software lots up on eBay, though most of them are games.
Once you get DOS and a telecom program running to allow your Apple II
to communicate with your PC (or Mac), then there are plenty of software
resources on the Web which you can download on the PC, transfer to
the Apple II, and write them to real Apple II disks.

Postage may be the real cost issue, so there may be benefit in finding
a UK Apple II enthusiast who can provide you with a "starter" disk.
If not, then there are several sources scattered about.

>Any help is greatly appreciated,

You're very welcome--it's good to have you aboard!

-michael

Check out amazing quality sound for 8-bit Apples on my
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