Re: Accelerator / VGA Graphics card

["Charlie" <charlied@NOSPAMbboard.com>]

"Exegete" <millers@noneofyourbusiness.com> wrote in message
3f96f01f_5@corp.newsgroups.com">news:3f96f01f_5@corp.newsgroups.com...
>
>
> Charlie wrote:
> > "Sheldon Simms" <sheldonsimms@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> > pan.2003.10.21.21.32.42.506869@yahoo.com">news:pan.2003.10.21.21.32.42.506869@yahoo.com...
> >
> >>We've talked about this before, and I feel like it is probably futile
> >>to bring it up again, but I was looking around the Intel website last
> >>night and got to thinking again...
> >>
> >>If such a card were to be made, I think it would be important to
> >>control feature creep. In other words, it should accelerate Apple II
> >>programs, it should provide a standard graphics output, and (as a
> >>side effect) it would provide 8Mb or more RAM to Apple II programs.
> >>The card would perform no other function. No SATA, No USB, No NIC,
> >>and so on. This restriction is made to prevent the card from trying
> >>to be a PC-on-a-card, and to make it as simple as possible (given
> >>the primary requirements).
> >>
> >>The card would include a low-power modern CPU, graphics adapter,
> >>and memory. A 65816 emulation program would run on the CPU and
> >>emulate a 65816 at speeds of more than 20Mhz (i.e. - faster than
> >>any real 65816). The emulation program would also emulate all
> >>Apple II & IIgs video modes, in the same way an emulation program
> >>would do it, and provide the video output to a VGA connector on
> >>the back of the card.
> >>
> >>Now the reason that I decided to post about this again is that
> >>it seems to me that Intel has pretty much the perfect solution(*)
> >>for this card: The Pentium M and 855GM northbridge.
> >>
> >>These two chips combine everything necessary. The Pentium M is
> >>a low power P6 processor, and the 855GM has a DDR memory
> >>controller, and a graphics controller. As far as I can tell, these
> >>two chips would be the only parts needed apart from the various
> >>analog components and whatever logic is required to interface the
> >>Pentium M with the Apple II bus.
> >
> >
> > I'm not very knowledgable on the hardware/software aspects of your idea but
I
> > do
> > have some questions that make me wonder if this is the way to go:
> >
> > 1.  Power:  Although, the Pentium M/855GM chipset is considered "low-power"
the
> > data sheet looks to me like it's power requirements far exceeds any Apple
II
> > power supply let alone what you can get on a slot.
> >
> > Am I wrong?
> >
> > 2.  Cost:  A quick look on the net showed me that Pentium M chips were
selling
> > at $230 to $495 for speeds 1.3GHz to 1.7GHz.  I assume a 900MHz chip would
be
> > cheaper but I didn't see any for sale.  Add to that the price of 855GM
chipset,
> > memory chips, video connector and the cost of manufacturing the board and
you
> > have a pretty expensive card.
> >
> > What is your estimate of the cost of a card like this?
> >
> > 3.  Emulation:  It would not be trivial to develope an emulator that runs
> > natively on the card.  I'm assuming you would have to create it on a PC.
Would
> > the emulator be in ROM?  Just testing it would  require making the card
first
> > (or at least a proto-type).
> >
> > Again, am I wrong here?  Is there already an emulator that would work?
>
> Which is a good argument for a PowerPC based accelerator, as there is
> already Bernie II the Rescue, which emulates ALL the IIgs in software.

I've never used a Mac, so clue me in if I'm wrong, but doesn't "Bernie II the
Rescue" run as an application under the Mac's operating system?
All the emulators that I know of that run on a PC require an operating system
to be booted first (MS-DOS, Windows or Linux/Unix).

What I think Sheldon Simms was suggesting in the original post was an emulator
running on a card in an Apple II (no foreign operating system).

> Surely doing just the 65816 should be easy.

In the original post the Apple II/IIgs graphics would also be emulated (and
output as VGA).
I'm not qualified to say whether that would be easy or not.  Has anyone ever
written an Apple II/IIgs emulator that can be booted directly on any modern PC
or Mac?

Charlie