Re: Asimov Site

[pausch@saafNOSPAM.se (Paul Schlyter)]

In article <39AC2B65.E9982372@inetnebr.com>,
Roy and/or Janet Miller  <millers@inetnebr.com> wrote:
 
> Paul Schlyter wrote:
> 
>>> and frankly, I like it better than yours Paul.
>>
>> Yes, I've understood that you don't enjoy moving around.
> 
> LOL, you are right on that Paul. I was born in New Jersey, raised in
> Pennsylvania, attended college in Tennessee, worked in Georgia, did
> graduate school in Mississippi, and served churches in Kansas and
> Nebraska. Now, if you were to place a map of the US over a map of
> Europe, I think you'd find that I've lived over a good portion of a
> continent.
 
OK, with that background I think you feel you've moved enough.  But
don't you even sometimes feel a desire to walk around in your
neighbourhood, and then not only on public streets or your own land?
 
>>>> with flaws, rather tha acknowledging the benefits other systems may have.
>>>
>>> When one has been attacked, they do not normally start applauding the attacker.
>>> but since Sweden has a long history of being an aggressor nation in Europe,
>>
>> <BIG LAUGH>
>>
>> How many wars did YOUR country involve itself in during the last 160 years?
> 
> How many of those were wars of aggression?
 
Well, if you ask the war-faring countries, NO war is a war of agression;
ALL wars are wars of defence - right?  That's why all countries have a
"Department of Defense", but no country has a "Department of Attack"....
 
Now, WHY do wars start if no-one is the agressor ????????????+
 
> Twice in this century we
> pulled western Europe's chestnuts out of the fire, and spend our wealth
> keeping a third war from starting. Meanwhile, Sweden traded with the
> Nazis and the Kaiser and made big bucks off of the deaths of millions.
> Nice country Sweden.
 
Do you consider yourselves heroes in Viet Nam too ????  Or those dictatorships
in South America which the US actively supported.....
 
There is plenty of blood on your hands too......
 
>> THINK before you post, will you?  Our "long history" as an "aggressor nation"
>> in Europe ended more than 250 years ago,
> 
> And Sweden was an ally of Napoleon, and latter, when the winds shifted,
> joined an alliance against him. If you are an ally of an aggressor, that makes
> you an aggressor.
 
Interesting -- during WWII, the US and UK were allies of Josef
Stalin, one of the worst mass murderers of the 1900's.  Conclusions?
Use the same logic as you used in the previous sentence....
 
> BTW - the US was a nation at that time,
 
The US celebrated 200 years as a nation in 1977, i.e. you're now 223 years old.
Which means you were not a nation 250 years ago....
 
> and we had self governing communities here since the early 1600s - almost 400
> hundred years.
 
400 years --- WOW !!!!  JUST INCREDIBLE !!!!!!      <big grin>
 
>> before your country even existed.
>> It ended when our king of that time, Karl XII, was defeated by Russia and
>> then shot to death, probably by one of his own people.
>>
>>> perhaps Paul doesn't have the experience to know what it like to be attacked.
>>
>> If you automatically view a disagreement as an "attack", and start to
>> invoke Swedish kings who acted like dictators some 300 years ago just
>> because of that, I think you have a problem.
> 
> Tell that to the hundreds of dead men still trapped in the Arizona.
 
I think you'll have to elaborate on that a little -- I cannot read your mind.
 
>>>> Read
>>>> his response to my description of our "everybody's right", which
>>>> enables people to freely walk around as long as they don't destroy
>>>> and don't disturb.  Roy pointed out that this freedom to move around
>>>> has its restrictions because one isn't allowed to destroy or disturb
>>>
>>> I believe you are referring to someone else's post. I just double checked, and I
>>> don't see any response that I have made to your comments on that issue. Midnight
>>> sun in your eyes? I have noticed however that you have a real streak of hatred
>>> toward the United States. Hatred isn't a positive value.
>>
>> I don't have any "hatred" towards the US, but I don't unconditionally
>> admire it either.  It has its good as well as its bad sides - all
>> countries have their good and their bad sides.  Also, countries which
>> are superpowers of their time often tend to act in arrogant ways.
>> This applied to Sweden some 300 years ago, and it applies to the US
>> today.
> 
> I hate to say this, but I agree with you here. Our current leaders seem to
> wish to establish a Pax Americana, we us as the successor to the British
> Empire. I'm not an isolationist, but American troops and equipment should
> come home. We can still be allies without having occupational forces in Europe.
 
Very true....
 
>> As usual, power corrupts.
>>
>>>> (which of course is correct, but it appeared he thought of it as a
>>>> disadantage rather than mutual care), and then he concluded that he
>>>> preferred to remain on his own land
>>>
>>> Land, in English has more than one meaning. I do prefer my land, that
>>> is, my country, to any other that I know of. There is more freedom here,
>>> as I value it, than in any other country.
>>
>> You're not referring to the freedom to hike out in the woods, are you?   <g>
> 
> I'm a boy scout leader. I've done a lot of hiking. On public land (of which
> we have a lot)
 
...but most public land closes at sunset, doesn't it?  If the rangers find
you there at night, won't they chase you away....
 
> and private land (after getting permission first - it's only polite.)
 
Large groups of people need to get advance permission too in Sweden to
have activities on private land.
 
I agree with you that it's polite to ask for permission first, but
one must be reasonable.  What if you have no idea of who owns the
land -- who should you ask?  And what if hundreds or even thousands
of people enter your land daily (that's the situation of Erstavik,
the largest private land in the vicinity of Stockholm and a popular
recerational area for Stockholmers) -- would you, as a landowner, be
willing to spend all your day saying "yes" or "no" to all those
requests?
 
>>> The sad thing is that it is gradually being taking away, as government
>>> takes more and more control of our lives, to protect us from ourselves,
>>> as though we were children.
>>
>> Are you here referring to efforts towards increased gun ownership control?
>> Yep, it's indeed terrible to not have the freedom to shoot your fellow
>> human beings.....  <g>
> 
> With three semi automatic 7.62.39 mm rifles, two semi automatic .22 rifles,
> three bolt action 7.62x51 mm rifles, a 12 ga shotgun and a 9 mm pistol,
> strange that I've never had a "chance" to shoot a fellow human being....
 
Others have though -- once or twice a year, some schoolkid gets pissed
off at his fellows or teachers, then borrows his parents' gun and shoots
them.  Never heard that in the news?
 
>>> and believes in investing it. Like people who open computer stores, or shoe
>>> repair shops, or who have an IRA or 401K that is invested in securities.
>>> They are all capitalists.
>>
>> Not necessarily -- but if they mamage to get their stores into the stock market,
>> they become capitalists of course.
> 
> Very wrong Paul. Go take a few courses in basic economics. Capital is money invested, it
> doesn't have to be invested in multinational corporations. It can be invested in a
> street vendors business.
 
Well, as soon as you buy anything at all, you "intest" in something, right?  Which
would make everyone dealing with money at all a Capitalist....
 
>> A capitalist isn't anyone who makes money on their own work.  The term "capitalist"
>> is somewhat fuzzy, but has at least two different meanings:
>>
>> 1. Capitalist - someone who supports Capitalism as a political system.
>>
>> 2. Capitalist - someone who has capital and invests it with the purpose to get
>>    still more capital.
> 
> That's what I said. Exactly. However, you seem to think that capitalist don't also work.
> Wrong.
 
When did I say a Capitalist never works ????
 
>>> And in this country, the truly wonderful thing is that that is spreading.
>>
>> Spreading WHERE?   Isn't it already around everywhere?
> 
> More, and more people here are investing, owning pieces of companies. Some of our
> bigger companies are owned by the labor unions that work for those companies.
> 
>>
>>> Oh, in America
>>
>> Where in America?  North America, Central America or South America?
>>
>> This is one example of US arrogance: they call their country
>> "America",
> 
> It isn't arrogance. Europeans called us Americans. And we were the FIRST state
> in the two continents. We were and are the United States of America, and from
> that title, and it's historical accuracy, what name should we give ourselves?
> Columbians?
 
United Statians perhaps ??  Anyway, there is a perfectly acceptable
name for your country: "United States of America", abbreviated as
"United States" or "US"/"USA".
 
Compare with e.g. the European Union: I would dare say it has now
grown so much that more Europeans live within the EU than outside it.
But we don't call the EU "Europe".....
 
>> as if the other countries in America (like Canada, Mexico,
>> Brazil, Argentina, Peru, etc) just didn't matter.  True, the US is
>> the American country with the largest population.  Now suppose that
>> the European country with the largest population, Russia, started to
>> call itself "Europe" - what would you think about that?  Wouldn't you
>> consider that an arrogant behaviour by the Russians?
> 
> I think you are showing your arrogance in 1) ignoring the history, and
> 2) assuming that any other american republic wishes to be called Americans.
 
2) is blatantly wrong -- America is the two continents, not some particular
republic.
 
>>> Paul, the percentage of the population that owns it's own home (land) is at
>>> an all time high. I suspect that countries where the percentage is low are
>>> countries with differing economic systems.
>>
>> ....or countries which offers an alternative.  It's not necessary to own the
>> land you live on -- owning it has both advantages and disadvantages.  I own
>> a (small) piece of land too, so I know...
> 
> Ah, but it is what is rightfully called the American dream - to own you own home.
> 
> Not to borrow it for a time for an exchange of money.
 
-- 
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Paul Schlyter,  Swedish Amateur Astronomer's Society (SAAF)
Grev Turegatan 40,  S-114 38 Stockholm,  SWEDEN
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