Re: not enough real programmers? (was Re: Byte Magazine: 18 Vintage issues, 1985-1986)

["Keatah@worldnet.att.net" <Keatah@worldnet.att.net>]

The 'system' is carefully designed to suck up the average worker and
milk the most out of him/her. They know it, you know it, and not enough
people rebel against it to make a difference anywhere. Simple as that,
slavery couldn't be disguised any better.




Victoria Welch wrote:
> 
> Howard S Shubs wrote:
> >
> > In article <7okklr$irv$0@216.39.144.179>, Victoria Welch <vikki@oz.net> wrote:
> >
> > >  I've had more than my fair share of jobs that "required the extra
> > >effort" from you only that took 12+ hours a day commonly.  My last job I
> > >walked out of after 150 hours of unpaid overtime in four months and
> > >constant harrasment and abuse for more (she'll work the extra time to do it with a hex editor, why spend money I can feed my Ferrari with (really!)).  It wasn't the first one :-(.
> >
> > You stayed a lot longer than I would have.  These days, I don't believe in
> > overtime unless it's -very- rare, paid or not.  I've got a contractor
> > mentality; unpaid work time is a contradiction in terms.
> 
> The final straw was after one 30+ hour day (gotta get this out to the
> client by tomorrow morning - the client had finally gotten hostile with
> the project they had already paid for constantly being half-arsed done
> and left on the back burner.)  I had busted arse all night to get it
> done (and done right as in finished *correctly*!), I was starting to
> seriously drag and I told them I was heading home to get some rest and
> was asked "are you leaving already?" - it was a standard question, no
> matter how long you had been there in any consecutive period.  When I
> came back the next day, I got the cold shoulder and evil eye for not
> being a team player and I was talked to about my attitude.
> 
>   I've quit doing it after that.  Then I had a *real* "attitude problem"
> and was harrased accordingly.  I don't have a problem doing some extra
> time *occasionally* ?hit happens and I care *a lot* about the work I put
> my name on.  The constant promises that this was a temporary crunch
> paled after 4 months and no let up in sight.
> 
> I had one SA job (briefly) that the owner (a workaholic who accomplished
> little, but thought he was a techie after being out of doing the actual
> work for God knows how long) used to reguarly page the SA staff at 0300
> to see who would respond (no problems, just an attitude check) and then
> if you didn't it either got you harrased and it certainly figured into
> your evaluations and "desireability" to the company.  After about a half
> dozen of these and driving in (an hour each way) to deal with "the
> problem", I kept carrying the pager on my belt and the battery in my
> purse :-).  Turnover there was very high.
> 
> Problem with small companies and (frequently) incompetent management
> with cash flow problems (because of that incompetence) is that you *do*
> end up keeping them alive far longer than they should be - keeping a
> paycheck coming in once you get trapped in this kind of situation
> becomes a priority :-).  Trying to take off time to interview is a
> nightmare (some of them will call your doctor to check).  If they even
> suspect, you could be on the street (I was "fired" after submitting my
> resignation).  None of this, of course, is even hinted at when you
> interview, every damn one of them: "you'd be lucky to work for us since
> we take such good care of our employees".  That has become a big red
> flag in my job search :-).
> 
> Even with more of these than seems rational, I still have a good work
> attitude and ethic - I love what I do and honor is important (I should
> have been a Klingon <grin>).  I've started asking questions at
> interviews and asking to talk with the current staff (something they
> rarely let you do without being there).  I don't do this in a hostile,
> threatening or derisive manner but it becomes pretty obvious that they
> think I am going to be a problem.  I give far more than a good days work
> for a days pay and am generally a lot more understanding of business
> problems and necessities than most people (experience counts for
> something :).
> 
> It would seem that unless you sugar coat everything in job searching,
> you *will* have problems getting past the HR folks (there are no bad
> jobs only bad employees).  It makes it tough to be honest as they
> interpet you as a "problem waiting to happen" when such is NOT the case.
> 
> So I am unemployed again.  This time I am being really picky about where
> I go to work (not hostile, not negatively aggressive - I am learning to
> play their game).  It is tough being broker than I have ever been, but I
> really want to find a job where I can contribute in my usual style and
> get some compensation for it.  Having more time off other than just to
> crash for a few hours would be nice also :-). I also want a place I can
> stay and grow, with my provable work history, it makes things difficult,
> but not impossible :).  In the process I pick up occasional consulting
> jobs and study a lot.  I can't afford to go back to school at this time,
> although I am looking into grants/scholarships, but probably not much
> chance of getting one.
> 
> There are worse things than being broke and unemployed.  One person at
> my last job once asked me over lunch (one day when we actually got to
> leave the building) "is slavery really dead?" - he has a family and is
> trapped there, I have a lot more sympathy for him, last I heard he was
> still working 16+ hour days (and frequently weekends) under incredibly
> pressure, he is good, he is one incredibly nice person, but unless he
> gets ahead (unlikely with what he is being paid) and can just quit,
> he'll loose everything if he just quits, the only way he'll ever be able
> to interview. He won't lie to them to get a day/afternoon off (although
> those folks lie to the employees daily).  Sigh...
> 
> Before someone accuses me of being cynical and negative, I'm not, just
> tired of taking anything to get the bills paid.  I am good and I am
> dedicated and would like a decent working environment.
> 
> I am hoping to find a job in embedded systems, I got introduced to these
> through people I knew from ham radio who were working in the field.
> I've done programming in a business environment for AGES and producing
> another report / entry / query for the bean counters pales deeply
> compared to getting a microcontroller project going!  I just finished a
> PIC project that I had a wonderful time doing it!  I've found occasional
> consulting work doing this (and a lot of offers that don't pay for
> themselves) and have enjoyed it most thoroughly!
> 
> Unfortunately my resume doesn't reflect a lot of this so getting that
> door open is proving to be somewhat difficult, especially in view that I
> am pretty much self trained (although I have had some *wonderful*
> mentors).  I've been told by people I know doing this that I know more
> than enough to get hired, but it hasn't happened yet ("at 50 you are
> applying for an *entry level position*?  You should have been in
> management years ago!  What is wrong with you?").  Management I can do,
> but I have a lot more fun, satisfaction and interest being in the
> trenches :-).  Sigh...
> 
> Take care, Vikki.
> --
> Victoria Welch, WV9K, DoD#-13, Net/Sys/WebAdmin SeaStar.org,
> vikki.oz.net
> "Walking on water and developing software to specification are
> easy as long as both are frozen" - Edward V. Berard.
> Do not unto others, that which you would not have others do unto you.