Re: not enough real programmers? (was Re: Byte Magazine: 18 Vintage issues, 1985-1986)

["Keatah@worldnet.att.net" <Keatah@worldnet.att.net>]

You have to play suck-up today; honesty and integrity take 2nd place
when comparing against the bottom line. Who sets the bottom line?
Someone who says they do. And definitely *NOT* the people(slaves) that
try to make the quota. Afterall, they are stupid and do what they are
told. Really.

Victoria Welch wrote:
> 
> Howard S Shubs wrote:
> >
> > In article <7okud9$agt$0@216.39.144.179>, Victoria Welch <vikki@oz.net> wrote:
> >
> > >The final straw was after one 30+ hour day [ ... ]
> >
> > Good for you!
> 
> I'm slow but very, very thorough ;-).
> 
> > >I was starting to
> > >seriously drag and I told them I was heading home to get some rest and
> > >was asked "are you leaving already?" - it was a standard question, no
> > >matter how long you had been there in any consecutive period.
> >
> > I would have laughed at him, if I'd had the energy.  I got that burnt out
> > of my system back 8 years ago.  NO ONE gets that kind of effort from me
> > these days.  I do the job right, during normal business hours.  If the job
> > is continually going from fire to fire, I look for another one.
> 
> I'm learning, but it has been a long painful education.
> 
> > I'd maybe consider spending that kind of undying effort -if- I had a
> > serious stake in the company and the effort had a definite goal.
> 
> I don't know anymore, I've had that rap thrown at me far too frequently
> and have taken that plunge at substandard pay and working conditions
> only to watch the officers rape the company and then leave when things
> got rough.  I guess I have been far too trusting (sucker :-( ).
> 
> > >my name on.  The constant promises that this was a temporary crunch
> > >paled after 4 months and no let up in sight.
> >
> > Been there.  Had a testing job where we worked 7 days a week for months
> > with no end in sight, for a purely internal project with a completely
> > artificial deadline and no management support.  Never again.
> 
> I completely concur.  The problem seems to creep up on you and then when
> you announce that you have had enough, you are branded as a "trouble
> maker" or worse if not fired.  They can't afford to have one employee
> work regular hours when everyone else is doing 2x+ that.  Bad for morale
> you know...
> 
> I'm willing to do whatever it takes to get a job done, but strangely,
> the more I am willing to do the more I get (less the renumeration of
> course).  "Gee you gave 400% yesterday, howcum you only did 110% today,
> you getting an attitude problem or just tired of being a team
> player"...  Sheesh...
> 
> > I am not my job.  The company, no matter what it is, will go on just fine
> > w/o me, and I will survive.
> 
> I've reached that point myself, but is certainly has made things
> precarious and for someone who worries about "keeping it all together",
> downright terrifying at times.  I guess I am too old fashioned in some
> ways :-).
> 
> I'm sticking to my guns on this one, I'm not concerned if I have to go
> homeless over it (which I do not expect to happen).  Eventually things
> will work out.  If I jump back into yet another situation like that
> again, I'll end up being 60 in the same boat.  Yes, I learn a lot, have
> a lot of fun and do a lot of good but (wisdom comes slowly to some?)
> there is more and more important things than just that and just getting
> the bills paid.  I'm not settling for no insurance anymore, just before
> a company I worked for had the boss keel over dead on the keyboard (he
> was going to work out the insurance thing, but he was growing too fast
> to keep up with it all) I took an accidental spill down some stairs and
> lost the use of my left arm for about a year and a half (trying to get
> used to one arm and the wrong one at that is difficult).  Fortunately it
> healed up finally and is now back to normal.
> 
> > >(there are no bad
> > >jobs only bad employees).
> >
> > <giggle>
> 
> Really :-)
> 
> > >So I am unemployed again.  This time I am being really picky about where
> > >I go to work (not hostile, not negatively aggressive - I am learning to
> > >play their game).
> >
> > I'm there now.  Perhaps we could get together on something.  <fairly
> > serious look>
> 
> Dunno, I have nothing new going on consulting wise and no idea when or
> if anything will break.  I left where I was and moved out here to the
> other side of the country (for several reasons) and over time that dried
> up for the most part.  Part of it was I quit being willing to work for
> the experience - first time I hit them with something close to a living
> wage, they got really quiet.  At the time I had a "real job" and it
> really didn't matter (heh).  The other part of the problem is that I am
> not really a good salesman or marketing person, but I am learning
> (fortunately that is something I do well :).
> 
> > >to interview. He won't lie to them to get a day/afternoon off (although
> > >those folks lie to the employees daily).  Sigh...
> >
> > He'll either learn or die.  Not much you can do about it.
> 
> I realize that, but I hate seeing good people being that badly abused
> when they know they are being held by the "short hairs".  Perhaps it was
> stupid (niave?) of me to walk out of that one without having something
> else first, but I just have a problem lying to people, it is an
> integrity issue.  At least I can still get up and put on a face in front
> of the mirror :-/.
> 
> The CFO / salesman / chief engineer where I used to work told me that I
> really should get over that "honesty thing" so I could start earning
> real money (while pointing to his Ferrari in the parking lot with all
> the junkers the employees drove).  He wanted me to join the sales staff,
> but after watching him (bluntly) lie to clients (not stretch the truth,
> but outright lie - there is a major difference to me to stretch your
> capabilities for sales purposes, but to promise what you are not going
> to be able to deliver is quite something else (oh yeah and remember to
> get their deposit check before they leave)), I sort of lost interest.
> Sometimes I wonder if maybe I really am dumb.  He got to where it was by
> screwing over people and putting his name on other peoples work to get
> patents (seeing him in the shop and trying to function there told me he
> had the most rudimentary clue about that side of the business (he
> claimed great proficiency and mentioned all his patents at great
> length).  I try to avoid thinking badly of anyone, but it gets hard to
> avoid when your face is constantly crammed into the obvious.  I don't
> expect anyone to be perfect, but there are some limits :-).
> 
> > >Before someone accuses me of being cynical and negative, I'm not, just
> > >tired of taking anything to get the bills paid.  I am good and I am
> > >dedicated and would like a decent working environment.
> >
> > I'd say you're just experienced.
> 
> Thanks for the re-enforcement :-)!  And a chance to vent a little.
> After being told so often all the problems I've mentioned were my fault
> it is refreshing to know I am not alone (not pleasant, just refreshing
> :).
> 
> Take care, Vikki.
> --
> Victoria Welch, WV9K, DoD#-13, Net/Sys/WebAdmin SeaStar.org,
> vikki.oz.net
> "Walking on water and developing software to specification are
> easy as long as both are frozen" - Edward V. Berard.
> Do not unto others, that which you would not have others do unto you.