Re: Apple 2 Where/How much

[supertimer@aol.com (Supertimer)]

spec@vax2.concordia.ca (Mitchell Spector) wrote:

>In article supertimer@aol.com (Supertimer) writes...
>
>>>>More facts: IIGS setups with SVGA monitors and laser
>>>>printers and gigabyte or more SCSI hard drives do exist.
>>>>However rare you think these setups are, they exist.
>>>
>>>    No arguement again, they do exist and I never debated that.
>>[yes you did, but ok; irrelevant stuff snipped]
>>
>>>    Okay -- If you sell an Apple IIgs with 17" display, a gigabyte
>>[snip]
>>>Iomega Zip drive, and other goodies, then that is *absolutely* fact.
>>>Yes, this would be an Apple IIgs "setup", and most certainly would
>>>it be worth $300+
>>[lots of irrelevant stuff snipped]
>> 
>>Well of course such a system with such peripherals
>>exists.  I have many of those peripherals on my own
>>IIGS.  ;-)
>> 
>>Thank you Mitch, now this debate can end.  We both
>>agree than $300+ IIGS SETUPS (again, I'm not saying
>>that the IIGS itself is worth $300+, see above) exists.
>
>    Absolutely. If you wanted to sale your Apple IIgs with all those
>items your currently using then it should be worth $300+.

Thank you for admitting this, Mitch.  Like I said, now
we can end this debate.

>Though like I
>said, you could replace the IIgs with a VIC 20 or a box of doughnuts
>and the value isn't going to change.

Wrong, Mitch.  If you replace the IIGS with a VIC 20,
the collection of hardware no longer is a setup.  A
setup is a collection of hardware that is controlled by
a computer.  It is the plus in "computer+peripherals."
A VIC 20 is incapable of supporting a Zip drive (no
SCSI interface), lacks SVGA hardware, and does not
have enough memory or close enough to standard
(or fast enough) serial ports to support a laser printer.

That's the problem.  By replacing the IIGS with a
VIC 20, you violate the definition of a computer
setup.  It would be like if I take the Pentax lenses
from my Zenit 122k setup and replace the Zenit 122k
with a point and shoot camera that can't use the lenses.
I can't very well say that the point and shoot camera's
setup now includes the lenses.  The camera and the
lenses must work together to form a system and thus
a SETUP.  Again, it does not matter that the resale
value of the Zenit 122k SLR and the point and shoot
camera I replaced it with are both low and the value
of the lenses are high.  The lenses are part of a camera
setup ONLY with a camera that can CONNECT TO and
USE the lenses.

In this debate, all the examples you provided do not
constitute a SETUP.  For example, the 8088.  I happen
to have an XT (a step up from the 8088) and also used
a PCT for the IIGS.  Just for fun, I tried connecting my
Canon BubbleJet printer to the XT and also to the PCT.
Apparently, the hardware is too decrepit to work with
the minimum data transfer rate of the printer because
printing from either GEOS or GEM do not work.  It
would be the same with a laser printer.  When I try
this with the IIGS or with my AT (286) units, the printer
works fine.  I've also tried to get the Zip Drive to work
with the XT and it does not work (put the ISA SCSI
car into the XT, installed the software and the software
reports that the Zip drive cannot be found).

I know the point you are trying to get across, but
VIC 20 and 8088 can't make the setup.

How about this.  Replace the IIGS in the $300+ IIGS
setup with an Amiga 1000 or an Atari 520ST or Mega ST?
These computers themselves as bare bones units
also go for an average of $25 or so, maybe more
maybe less just like the IIGS bare bones unit.  But
these units really CAN work with the hardware in the
above $300+ IIGS SETUP so they will make REAL
COMPUTER SETUPS with the hardware.

So, the IIGS, the Amiga 1000, the Atari 520ST or
Mega ST, or similar units are not worth much as
bare bones units, but $300+ SETUPS driven by
these computers DO exist.

I think we can now end this discussion so that I can
email you those stereo samples in 1999.

Happy New Year!