Re: Tom Turley: Banned from Attending K-Fest '97

[richard.b@genie.com]

buggie@musca.unm.edu (stephen e buggie) writes: >
richard.b@genie.com replies: >>
cturley@grin.net responds: **

>"DR. TOM" TURLEY HAS BEEN BANNED FROM ATTENDING K-FEST 1997
>===========================================================

>Charles "Dr. Tom" Turley is holds the undisputed title of most
unpopular person in the A2 world.  His past sins included
pirating of current software, and sector-editing software. 
Those activities were >done in the distant past.  He has
apologized to those whom he offended or injured.

>>Not in all cases he hasn't. He selectively apologises to
those he needs to use.

**I've tried to be as friendly as humanly possible with
everybody involved with the A2 community. As much as I'd like
to be friendly and cooperate with every A2 user, developer and
programer on this planet, I'm a realist and know that is not
possible. Nor, will I sit back after being needlessly,
smeared, snubbed, belittled, humiliated, slandered, trashed out
in public and forget about it, without firing back to set the
records straight! I've also made several blanket apologies to
this newsgroup on several occasions, (the most recent being 2
days ago) for any problems and/or hassles I may have causes or
provoked - concerning EVERYTHING. How many times must I make
such blanket public apoligies? For what it's worth Richard
Bennett - I'm doing it here once again NOW - just for YOU! 

So, to satisfy your persistant demands - I specifically make
this public uttering and apoligize to you - Richard Bennett
for whatever you seem to be offended by concerning any of my
actions. I'm so very sorry - please forgive me!

We've covered all this in email before - with cross flames and
insults, name calling and the likes - let's end it now with
this public reply. And, I have no interest in using you in the
least. Some of your fine programs maybe - for my own personal
computer needs, but have no desire to use you as an individual
for anything what-so-ever. 

I'm fairly sure we could even converse in public with a
friendly nature - given the chance to do so. Who knows, maybe I
might just be able to pay a casual visit to KF-97 and we could
entertaint the crowd with a civil discussion and debate on
issues you'd like to clear up concerning me.

As for using others, that's what we all do, all the time - to
one degree or another. I see nothing wrong with it either - as
long as mutual respect and mutual use is considered and not
abused.

>I am upset by the ban against his attendance.  Turley knows
that he's unpopular, yet he has the courage to attend.  He
also has the potential to make various positive contributions
to KFest ---- He is very

>>Turdbag has no positive contribution to anything, except his
own lying thieving and an all round arsehole.

**You seem to have this facination and obsession with using
vulgar slurs against people, especially with words dealing
with feces and the openings from which it originates. You must
have some form of coprophilia complex of something to that
effect. You keep calling me a lying, thieving all around arsehole,
turdbag, etc - yet, you've never had any personal encounters
with me - face-to-face, not one! Perhaps that will change this 
July.

You base your feelings about me on what you've read and been
told by others, who heard it from others, who heard it from
still others. That's third-hard gossip, misinformation and
twisted rumors - nothing more! And your basing you public
comments and thoughts about me from such gossip is nothing but
ignorance. Unless you have undeniable proof that I'm a REAL
turdbag, lying, thieving - all round arsehole - from your own
personal face-to-face experiences with me, you really should
NOT show your ignorance by posting such stuff in this public
newsgroup..

As to your comments that I have no positive contribution to
anything, I dont code or program - everybody knows that and I
don't design hardware either - but, I can hold up a list of
positive contributions to the A2 community that will match
anything you can list and then some! Sure, you code and
program and do a damned fine job of it too. I use many of your
programs and respect your talent. There are many methods to
make useful contributions to the A2 community besides coding
and creating programs for it. 

>knowledgeable about hardware and software,

>>He knows jack beyond what any other long time user would
know. Publishers and developers in the Apple II community
steer clear of him.

That's simply not true Richard. I'll show you what I know - if
and when we ever have the chance to meet and discuss this
face-to-face. I can out do your talents in music and art any
day buddy. I promote every commercial product known for the
Apple II line of computers - with every chance I can from my
web sites. I don't devote space to put down peoples efforts
like you do on your web site with the turkey folder either.
I've spent a great deal of time and money developing software
with others, asking no credit for my efforts and I think my
efforts to transfer the entire AOL A2 archives to Ground are
very beneficial to the general A2 com unity needs. I have a
friendly relationship with Earl Childers, Mike Westerfield,
Roger Wagner, the staff of SQC, Steve Kavanaugh, Ben Johnson,
Ian Brumby, even your old x-buddy Alex :) and a few others I
won't bother to list here. I even have a fair relationship
with Tony Diaz, (designer of the Turley-Lie-detector system).
Had a fairly cordial relationship with Jawaid, before he sold
out to the gang of Turley-haters. Sure some people in the A2
community don't want to be tainted with associations with me -
fine and dandy. I can't please everybody and ain't about to
try! And, I've hocked many developers and programmers up with
each other - to try and assist them with working together on
past projects. Some succeeded - some didn't. 

When you get black-balled by Joko - it's sort of hard to get a
friendly relationship working with many folks in the A2
community, but not everybody listens to Joko any more - so, I
do have a fair share of friendly relationships within the A2
community even with his efforts to drive me away, with every
chance he gets. We both know what your really want to do with
this newsgroup and what you really think about everybody that
post to it, why you show your presents here from time to time
with your hateful rants and such, don't we? Perhaps, I'll
publish your email to me from a few months back, in the first
issue of A2-2000, so everybody can see what you really do think
about the users of this newsgroup. Sure, why not? People have
a right to know what you really think of the CSA2 newsgroup
user. Allow me to quote from the Dec. 1996, Vol. 3, Issue 3 of
Shareware Solutions II, page 12, col. 3 - 'Lies, Lies, And
More Lies - by Professor G. S. Gumby - Ask Mr 8-Ball:

"Gumby: It's been reported that a certain Aussie IIGS
programmer has begun a grassroots campaign to get the Usenet
newsgroup - comp.sys.apple2 - wiped off the face of the earth.
He says its because a small group of mental midgets have
scared the other participants away. Is it true?"

Well, I (good old Dr. Tom) say - no, not as far as I can see.
This certain Aussie IIGS programmer hasn't had much success
with his grassroots campaign to get the Usenet newsgroup -
comp.sys.apple2 - wiped off the face of the earth. I can
hardly keep up with all the useful and informative posts to
the CSA2 Usenet newsgroup - that continues to poor in, each
and every day - from worthwhile users, old and new alike. In
fact, I'd say this newsgroup has more productivity, life and
action to it now than it ever has in the past. Just take a
look at some of the proof archived via dejanews service, and
the links to it all I've put together from my web site;

http://www.grin.net/~cturley/gsezine/GS.WorldView/**A2GS.CSA2.DAY.BY.DAY
/

http://www.grin.net/~cturley/gsezine/GS.WorldView/*BARUDA/

http://www.grin.net/~cturley/gsezine/GS.WorldView/*CSA2.CHRONICLES/

It seems no matter how many mental midgets; Cold fusion,
Endless Mike, Nobody, IRSman, Matthew Carlson, Daver, Stroker
Ace, etc. and so on - they just can't seem to KILL CSA2. And
they never will. This newsgroup is not going to be stifled or
dominated and ruled either with; moderators, power-king's
ego-heads and the like either. Like the Usenet in general it's
a worldwide community of folks asking questions,, helping each
other, giving what they have to offer, with their own special
forms of talent, concern and worthwhile contributions - as
best trhey know how, for the love of it, for commercial
development and promotions, and so on. These pitiful, hateful
folks are not about to kill this newsgroup with all the
efforts they employ and all the tricks they try to envoke.
Give it up dudes - it's really just a waste of your time and
energy. CSA2 - just like the Apple ][ will exist forever. As
long as there are Apple ][ users, developers and programmers
that post to this newsgroup with productive, lively and
interesting contents, questions and calls for help, it's going
to go on forever!


>and has been the first to know about new products not yet 
>released.  

>>Such as? And don't bring out the old Tiger Learning Computer
rubbish. That information was plastered all over the media and
Genie before Turdbag even knew about it. As for other "new"
products, considering  most publishers and developers think
he's an arsehole and want nothing to do with him, WHAT new
products does he know so much about that nobody else does?

**To many to list here Richard! Go check out my web site
sometime -hot shot. And, check it out real through too - don't
just skim over it all - like you usually do with everything
related to me, like everything else you collect, edit and
distort with; stupid comments, gossip, warped opinion and
misinformation that you use to update your web sites 'Turkey
folder with. I think you'll find lots of interesting new and
old A2 products, reviews, interviews, articles and lots of
stuff you can't find on Genie.

Sorry to say it but, let's be realistic about Genie, it's
dying fast with the A2 area - nobody in their right mind would
deny that it's not.


>He is a close personal friend of our founder, Steve Wozniak 
(Tom got the 'Woz to autograph >one of my business cards for
me!).

>>...and Eva Braun was a close personal friend of Adolf Hitler.
What does this have to do with anything? Turdbag has an
amazing ability to be able to convince people he's "just a
nice guy". Turn your back and he'll fuck you over before you
can say "II Alive is a really good magazine."

**Well, I don't know anything about either Eva Braun or Adolf
Hitler, don't care to learn abut them either - never meet
them! I do know, like and respect Woz and he knows, likes and
respects my Apple II efforts also. We are good friends and we
have a good working relationship also. If it were not for my
meeting him back at the first US Festival in the early
eighties, I'd never have even bought an Apple computer.

I'll be sure to tell him your comments above - next time talk
to him. You've got my snail mail address Richard, send me
something for him to autograph, I've gotten him to autograph
lots of things for many people. He enjoys doing that! He's a
wonderful person with a heart of gold. He's changed the world
in so many ways for the good of millions of people. He read
the interview in the Summer 1996 Issue of II Alive, loved it
and even autographed copies of it for me and Rubywand. 

So don't rag and dog-out my friendship with Steve Wozniak,
Rubywand, Steve Buggie or anybody else or I might just be
provoked to use something other than verbal debate and
discussions with you - should we ever meet up face-to-face.
Remember, a cream-puff, Turkey, Turdbag, (whatever you care
to call me) can get real messy and hard to handle when
squeezed to hard and to often!  

We've all done things we regret, or ashamed of having done in
the past, including you, me, Steve, Rubywand and 'The Woz'.
We've learned from our past errors and try to not make such
errors with our current efforts. None of us are perfect and
never will be. I've got more of a life and more real friends
than you might think I have. So, don't squeeze the Turgbag to
hard, he just might leak all over you. 


>Its upsetting that the KFest ban against Turley appears to be
a special rule directed against him only; like a law made
retroactive and to apply against one person. If attenders
must meet particular standards to attend K-Fest, then the
standards should be publicized in advance. Behavioral
standards should be applied to actions done after the
standards have been set.

>>So they should also draw up rules in advance just in case a
known pedophile attends? Or in case John Sculley turns up.
Or...

**Richard, such comments are uncalled for and very much out-of
place here. (A) I'm not a known pedophile, never have been a
pedophile and your using such a term to apply to me or imply
such is pure and utter bullshit!  (B) Your comparing me with a
pedophile or with John Sculley are a gross insult, a very low
blow and prove exactly how little you know of me and just how
far you'll go to try an humiliate and smear me in the public
eye on this newsgroup.. Nathan Mates, Stroker Ace and a few
other buttheads also have implied to my being a pedophile with
recent posts and comparitive inserts of non-related
misinformation to this newsgroup. Well, allow me to clear this
matter up to the general public of this newsgroup. I have
never been a pedophile, and never would engage in such gross
pervesions. I'll tell you and everybody else reading this right now.
If I ever did see any pedophile activity occuring - I'd drag
the low-life, twisted pervert into the nearest police station myself,
demand his arrest and testify at the trial demanding a
conviction. That sort of stuff is the sickest perversion known
- IMHO and your relating such crap and comparision to me - is
just as sick and twisted as your being such yourself - like
wise the same goes for anybody else that would dare to make
such a comparison to me. in public or private for that matter.

None of this has any relationship relavence to my not being
welcome to attend KansdasFest-97 either! It's as devoid of
logic as compairing an Apple to an Kangaroo.


>I disagree that Turley is likely to be disruptive. In
November last year, I attended an academic meeting in San
Francisco and invited Turley to meet me.  He visited at my
hotel room for 2-3 hours, and >we had a fine conversation
about our shared interests focused on the Apple II.  None of
his actions were

>>I wonder why some people see Turley this way, yet when they
start releasing their own products, or start standing on their
own two feet, Turdbag is the first to cut them down or stab
them in the back. You know he has these little stupid groups,
why can't people stand for themselves, why do they need a
supposed mentor? Can't people think for themselves for the
common good?

**Richard, if you had the balls to meet with me face-to-face
and discuss your issues about me, with me and not with others,
you might see me in a completely different light! You know
where I live and your always welcome to pay me a visit,
whenever you happen to be in my area of the world. Remember,
you never really know what a person is like until you meet
them yourself. And, like I said, who knows that might just
happen this year at KansasFest-97. At least I hope so.

Concerning your other comments - please be specific, list the
products, people and names that I've been involved with, not
supported and have cut them down or stabed them in the back.
Come on, name them! And, give some good undisputed PROOF that
I've done such stuff with anybody, anything or any product,
software and/or hardware. You can't because such PROOF does
not exist. For anything you can list or any person you can
name  -I can most certainly give you a valid response to prove
you WRONG! I support and do my very best possible to promote
all A2 efforts of development with hardawre and software, as
best I can. Don't base your feelings on all this third-handed
gossip, misinformation and the twisted-altered rumors you get
from the Turley-haters. That just don't cut it with any sort
of valid PROOF or REALITY of anything. If any of this crap
about me that's been circulating on the BBS', online forums
and IRC had any merit of reality to it, I'd have been locked
up in jail long ago.

>disruptive or even impolite.  If other attenders were to act
aggressively towards Turley at K-Fest, then THEY are the
disruptors, not mild-mannered Dr. Tom!

>>Mild-mannered schizophrenic. You do know that he takes
prescription drugs for his mental condition, don't you? You of
all people should have noticed this at your "meeting" with
him. Should I summarize schizophrenia for people: "psychosis
characterised by breakdown of integrated personality
functioning, withdrawal from reality, emotional blunting and
distortion, and disturbances in thought and behaviour."

**Richard, first I'm not schizophrenic. Yes, I do have a mental
disability that is well maintained with one prescription drug,
namely I take Pemoline for a condition known as AADD or Adult
Attention Deficit Disorder. I'm sure Steve Buggie and anybody
else that reads this newsgroup should be aware of that mental
disability. I posted a detailed outline concerning it several
months ago on this newsgroup - at the insistance of Joe Kohn.


I'm also aware - as many medical researchers and practioners
are that there is a heated debate over the validity of the
existence of AADD. The same can be said for many CFS, of the
current rules and accepted laws with modern physics, computer
design theories, etc. Different views, debates, arguments,
thoughts and feeling on everything is what keeps all worlds
turning.

Steve Buggie never detected any sort of integrated personality
disorder or any form of psychosis during our meeting nor
during any of our dozens of lengthy telephone conversations.
If certain people have feelings or opinions about my varying
personalities expressed on this newsgroup - with my posts, I
just have moods, thoughts and variations to my main
personality, (which is know to be rather complex at times) and
can be provoked into good states and bad states - accordingly,
as the need arises :)  If you want to label that as being
schizophrenic or an integrated personality disorder or any
form of psychosis - then GO FOR IT!

Hey, FWIW, I've had many of my friends and associates in the A2
community say that you, Joe Kohn and several others are nut
cases and mental whacko's - yet I don't base my judgements on
you are anybody else until I meet them in person. Of all those
we've discussed as such - Joe Kohn is the only one I've ever
meet in person, talked with in detail over many, many long
telephone conversations concerning A2 development discussions
and such over the past several years. I could say that Joe
has his high-light and border-line mental moments too, but,
don't we all?

Anybody can present two sides or two personalities when
provoked, good and/or bad, including me, you, Joe Kohn and
anybody else. I can be a real mild-mannered polite cream puff
if I'm treated polite and with mutual respect by others or I
can be a hot-tempered son-of-a-bitch if I'm provoked to act as
such. It all depends on the person, their attitude and the way
they react with me.

And, I also have several physical disabilities also - which
have nothing to do with my efforts in the A2 community. As
long as I'm able to pound on my keyboard, connect to the Net
and see my monitor, I intend to stick with my A2 efforts - and
to provide all the useful, legal and productive things I can
provide.

If you don't like my presents in the A2 community - (and
several don't) then you can all just sit on it and spin.
I can't please everybody and neither can anybody else!


>I can't attend myself this year, due to financial reasons.  I
expect my finances to improve in '98 and >will make a strong
effort to attend this year.  Readers should attend KFest '97
regardless of the

>>This is a pity Steve, I bought one of your power supplies last
year, and I'd like to meet you again.

**Yes Richard, I too bought one of his power supplies - fine
work too. My serial number is 64.  What's yours?

>outcome of the Turley banning.  But I urge the planning
committee to reconsider the earlier decision about Dr. Tom.

**Not neccessary!  Dr. Tom is not going as a paid attendee to
KansasFest-97. But, like I said before, I might try to just
drop in for a day to have a nice peaceful Q & A session,
debate or whatever - as long as it's civil and peaceful. Maybe
then some of this misinformation and twisted third-hand gossip
about me can be cleared up face-to-face, with many attendees
that seem to have a preformed opinion of Dr. Tom, based on
nothing but what gossip and fantasy stories they have all been
dosed out with over the years - from a few select folks and
notable A2 icons - within the current and past A2 community
have been so gifted with spreading around the world.

I'd love to meet Dr. Tom, so I can let him know exactly what I
think about his fifteen years of lying, thieving and sticking
his fingers up at the very publishers and developers who are
keeping our community alive.

**Likewise Richard -there's a lot of FACTS you need to be
straightened out on concernig me. Here's a couple for starts.
Fifteen years is stretching it just a bit. I only bought my
very first Apple IIc computer in 1986, then the IIgs soon
after. That's only 11 years. And, I (personally) didn't even
have knowledge or access to the Internet until 1994 - so check
your math buddy!

And if you twist, edit or alter any of this long thread and 
response - in your Turkey folder, then people will really know
what your actually up to and loss a great deal of respect for
you as a person.

Cheers & G'day - to an Aussie that thinks he knows all about me
but, really knows very little.

Tom