Re: METAL is now FREE!!!!!!

[kreme@nyx.cs.du.edu (Not A Random Name)]

szatezal@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Shane M Zatezalo) writes:

>In article <24362@drutx.ATT.COM> dvac@druwa.ATT.COM (Daniel Vachon) writes:
>>In article <C536xE.Cuq@darkside.osrhe.uoknor.edu>, dsdd@okcforum.osrhe.edu (Roy Barrett) writes:
>>> Daniel Vachon (dvac@druwa.ATT.COM) wrote:
>>> 
>>> : un-accelerated Apple //e, or even a Transwarped //e....I would not recommend
>>> : METAL/FV for you.  
>>> 
>>> I don't think so...  Metal is -so- much faster than Acos, I've seen it on
>>> all kinds of computers.  Something could actually be wrong, or the versions
>>> of Metal you used had bad memory management.
>>> 
>>Well Roy...Are you a sysop?!  Have you ran METAL/FV on an Apple //e before?!
>>The slow down was very apparent in message base sections...Also the Spacer
>>Quest I had (the Metal Version) on-line with METAL was PAINFULLY slow.   

>And now we know why people /flame/ other people for not even replying to 
>the same subject-type that was previously posted.

Yes, your message is a perfect example.

>Daniel: GET A CLUE!

>Roy is talking about the difference between Acos and Metal. NOT the difference
>between GBBS and FutureVision.

And Dan is talking about how the Metal/FV system was slower on his //e than
the ACOS/GBBS system.  Hate to break the news to you, but as a frequent
caller to Dan's system, it WAS much slower under Metal/FV.

>Daniel: READ THIS THOROUGHLY:

>If you compare the run-time of the same code from Acos and Metal, Metal
>/is/ faster.

That's not what we're talking about.  We're talking about the user
waiting two seconds for a command to be processed and wondering why
the damn system is so slow.

>Daniel again writes:

>>Have you ran METAL/FV on an Apple //e before?!

>I'm fairly certain he's got a GS.

So you have no idea what FV/Metal on a //e looks like, eh?

>>The slow down was very apparent in message base sections...

>Really? ;) Daniel, do you have a clue why that is? Have you ever looked
>how a SMF is handled? Below you mention you switched to Metal, then you
>should /know/ why the smf is slower.

He didn't say he cared WHY it was slower, just that it was slower.

>>I also had problem after problem with the up/download
>>protocols.  Xmodem was the only one people could use reliably.  With or 
>>without compression on the HST.

>I've run into that, but only because my bbs was pretty-much the major 
>test system for the new versions of Metal when TC Wilson did the product,
>just because I live about 3 minutes away from him.

>Just a side note here: IF you are having problems with Metal 1.09's 
>xfer protocols, drop back to the 1.08 xfer packages. If you can't find
>a place to get them, they are up on TAP. (see sig below)

Actually, Dan's board isn't up any longer.

>>  And the sysop utilities in FV are unmatched
>>by any other BBS program available, I will openly admit.  It is a hell of a 
>>system, it just is not cut out to be run on an Apple //e with or without a 
>>Transwap //e.

>That's Futurevision's fault. But then again, who would want to run Proline
>on a II+? (Yes, I know its possible... but Proline isn't all that speedy
>either. I wouldn't run Proline, nor FV on a bare-bones IIe. Heck, I wouldn't
>run either on a bare-bones IIgs.)

>> I think you will find that most sysops out there are running on
>>accelerated Apple //gs's at 8 to 10Mhz....

>I am. Both GS's I have are 8 mhz. Its the only way to go. I couldn't see
>using the Finder at 2.8 mhz, let alone FV.

>>> : just some food for thought...
>>> 
>>> I think this food has gone bad.
>>
>>Maybe you should spend some time checking into some facts before inserting thy
>>foot in thy mouth...  I am not ANTI-Metal or ANTI-FV, nor am I anti-ACOS.  
>>They all have their places is what I am saying...  METAL/FV is great for high
>>speed Apple //s, while ACOS is better for the low end. 

>Uh, no. I would have to say /Metal/ is better in either case. Futurevision
>on the other hand... it just does too much, and (atleast for my sanity's sake)
>requires an accelerator.

>Since you appear to have both Acos and Metal, how about running
>/very/ similar code on both, and timing it. I think you'll see there's
>a difference.

>> Also, my BBS code for ACOS is pretty large, as I ran an ACOS system
>> for about 5 years before 
>>switching to METAL.  There were quite a few features in FV that I have similar
>>things coded for in my ACOS bbs.   In your mind, maybe METAL/FV is god, but
>>then maybe you have a //gs or something...I just have a //e, and IMHO ACOS or
>>MACOS is a better bet for me.

>I highly, highly doubt your Acos bbs does what Futurevision does...
>(Note: I've never seen his bbs, so I /really/ can't say.)

Well, the problem I think everyone is having is that MOST people equate
METAL and Futurevision, just as most equate ACOS and GBBS.  Basically,
Dan is sayig the FV is far to large and slow and pokey to run on a //e,
and I agree with him.  If Dan has any interest and we ever have some
time, we might see about stripping out a large chunk of FV and seeing
how that runs, though the message files are still a major stumbeling
block.


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