Re: METAL is now FREE!!!!!!

[fnet@backus.cba.csuohio.edu (Greg Boh)]

In article <1993Apr3.022232.3897@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> dratzlaf@nyx.cs.du.edu (Norby) writes:
>Ok.  This is enough.  I cannot keep my mouth shut at this point.

Then you better get some help to pull your foot out of it.

>This thread and ones like it started out bashing bbs software.  Now its
>turned into bashing sysops because they don't want to run a particular
>package.

These threads did NOT originate bashing software. Shall I post the original
post? No...I won't. The gist of the message was..."METAL is now Freeware -
This is where you can get ahold of it". Henceforth, the Subject of the message
and the Cross Post to the other groups. It was not "All Sysops who Don't Use
METAL suck". If it were, I would have entered that AS the title.

>I think we see disadvantages already of METAL.  Networking in particular. 
>If sysops of METAL boards act like 15 year old kids quibbling about
>"Mine's better than yours!", what happends when actual 15 year-old kids
>calling METAL boards get Usenet access.

Are you into Stereotyping? I'd say so. I'll just tell you this. My opinions do
NOT reflect ANYONE elses but MY OWN! -I- take responsibility for all the posts
that -I- have made on the subject. Do -NOT- attribute MY actions to the rest
of the METAL community cause if you do, you'll only be furthering the same
type of thinking that brought us such wonderful American History topics like
Slavery and the Native Indian slaughter.

Look at the the names that have posted to this thread and you'll see that a
LOT of them come right back to me.

>If METAL is so damn good, why do you feel you have to ram it down our
>throats?  Some people here run a good board, and don't see the need to change.

This is agreed. And if people don't WANT to change, then they don't have to. I
am simply advertising a product that -I- believe in. In the process, I'm
answering questions and getting RID of the GROSS inaccuracies about it and
it's competition. Read the posts again. I never said "ACOS sucks" or "LLUCE
sucks" or "Pro-Line Sucks." In fact, I do believe that I posted that LLUCE has
come a LONG way from the demo that I saw of it. 

>Not really needing or wanting superior math capibilities, networking
>abilities, etc. does not make a person stupid.  Nor does not memorizing
>specs on METAL simply because someone could care less.

No, but posting WRONG information DOES. When people post information that is
inaccurate, I tend to speak out about it.

>I'm not bashing METAL.  I really like it!  If my stupid hard drive would
>work correctly with it, I'd run it!  But I've also used many different
>systems, and looked into a few of them.

What exactly is the problem with your Hard Drive? Perhaps we could help you
with it? What kind of drive? Controller?

[ Warp 6 Customization Info Deleted ]

>There are two METAL boards here where I live, and one GBBS board.  The
>METAL boards have been modified VERY little, and look almost exactly
>alike, as well as almost exactly like the METAL demo passed around.  Sure,
>they run fast, have all the 'kewl' little games that people love to play,
>but there's nothing unique about the board.  FutureNet feeds are there,
>which I think some users do post on, but nothing is ever on the local
>topics except an occasional "My spaceship blew up!  Someone rescue me!"

If they look like the METAL demo, then they are sorely out of date. The only
METAL demo that was released did NOT come with FutureVision. It came with the
METAL BBS, which was dropped later, in favor of FutureVision, which, I might
add, was originally coded in MACOS.

And if the users aren't posting and the board looks boring, then the sysop has
a problem. It isn't the USERS fault. I can't COUNT how many stock GBBS systems
I have called in my life.

>Personally, if I ran METAL, I don't think I would subscribe to the
>FutureNet, except maybe a few Usenet topics here and there, based on user
>demand.  The reason is, if I did, I'd be basically just another FNet site.
>Not a BBS, a network site.  People would call to gain access to the net. 
>If I wanted that, I'd invest in a Unix box and charge for access.

That isn't true at all. FutureVision is a BASE line package. It is up to the
end SYSOP to customize it and make it "Interesting" for the users. The Network
is there for those sysops that WANT to be on it and WANT to be a part of it.
It's something that hasn't been readily available to most Apple II sysops
unless they shelled out a few bucks. Now it is free, but this doesn't mean
that everyone who gets FutureVision will HAVE to be on the network.

I'm kind of hoping that people design and create NEW BBS systems. I'd LIKE to
see that. Very much so.

>But that's just my opinion.  You see, different people want a bbs for
>different reasons.  Some people, like me, like just a little place where
>people can get together and talk, let loose and get goofy!  If I had
>space, I'd like to house PD Apple stuff.  Other people need to have that
>Ultra-Mega-Fast-Gigs-O-Files-Tons-O-Games-Networked-To-Mars type of
>system.  That's great!  I call them too!  It's always very impressive to
>me how easily all these machines are networked together so easily.

I wouldn't call it "easy". It's a pretty complicated process. But yeah, I
know. I still call the local boards. I keep active on them as WELL as the
Usenet and FutureNet. I LIKE the customized and Pull Down MENU systems that
are around. 

>My point after all this (if you haven't gotten it yet...):
>
>  You METAL worshippers do have one of the most advanced system ever
>  designed for the Apple II.  But not everyone needs to drool over
>  it like you do.  Sysops have been maintaining very enjoyable bbs's
>  for years before METAL came along.  There is nothing wrong with a
>  sysop who's put lots of time and effort into customizing his system
>  not wanting to go through the trouble of changing everything around
>  just a few bells and whistles.  And, yes, there are other people who

Our viewpoints, based on your summary here, are exactly the same up to this
point.

>  want to write bbs software.  Maybe in your opinion those other packages
>  are not as advanced as yours.  But look at it this way:  How would you 

Nope. Not my opinion at all. The Eclipse project is a pretty damn cool one and
I'd like to see more people working on it. I am interested in seeing what 
LLUCE will bring if it ever makes it to the market. It's been promised for
what...6 years now?? Naturally I am skeptical about it, especially after
seeing the demo that looked EXACTLY like ACOS. 

In fact, Eclipse is available on our FTP site for those of you wishing to
check it out. I HIGHLY urge you to. It's a nice package and offers a LOT. It's
main problem is that it doesn't have any BBS software. You'll have to write it
yourself.

>  feel if you worked months, or years on a program; making it your baby,
>  having it take away most if not all of your free time, only to 
>  release it and hear hordes of fanatics screaming "It sucks!  It sucks!
>  Don't buy it!  It sucks!  The author's a moron!  It sucks!  You're 
>  stupid if you don't get ours.  Ours is the BEST!  Theirs SUCKS!"

I haven't seen anyone posting "It Sucks" about ANYONES BBS projects. -I-
personally have attacked Mr. Stepehn Lichter because of MIS-INFORMATION that
he has posted. It was obvious that he is NOT knowledgable in the area that he
was talking about. I simply called him on it. My last post was meant as a
sarcastic remark to se if he has EVER seen what METAL and FV look like from
the inside.

>Please think about it.
>
>And please stop cross-posting to csa2.gno, God knows they don't want to
>hear this crap, either.

Done. At least responses to this will won't get posted there.

>(Disclaimer:  This post is not intended for any one person in particular,
>              and may pertain to several people.  If you are offended by
>              the preceding post, it must have been directed at you, eh?)

Nope. Didn't offend me. Nothing really does. It's just a great way to spend
the time that I work. I happen to have a great deal of knowledge about the
product that I am working with.

Now...to anyone who hasn't aborted this damn post yet..I'll state MY
goals/opinions.

I want to see the Apple II line STILL around and working in the year 2000. The
ONLY way that this is going to happen is if Apple II users have a COMMON place
to share ideas/questions/answers. My personal goal has been to bring that one
step closer to the 600 Apple users in my community. I have worked towards this
goal since the minute that I started tinkering with FutureVision. I was one of
the first sites to seriously start networking.

Usenet and Internet E-mail is about the BEST way to reach the LARGEST audience
of Apple Users. By providing this free of charge to my users, I plan on doing
my "duty" to this machine. Believe me when I say that I wouldn't run a BBS on
ANYTHING else other than my Apple. (Of course if someone wants to donate a
Cray or NeXT to me to play with, I'll consider it! :)