Re: Poll about Mockingboard h/w clone

[Rubywand <rubywand@swbell.net>]

mjmahon@aol.com writes ...
> 
> Rubywand wrote:
> > "Michael J. Mahon" writes ...
> > >
> > > Rubywand wrote:
> > >
> >  ....
> > >
> > > Is there a current source for the SSI-263 speech synthesizer?  
> > > I thought it was made of unobtainium.
> >
> > Don't know. There's probably something available that would  on a
> > work fine new Mockingboard.
> 
> Actually, I'd be quite surprised.  Speech synthesis has gone off in
> a different direction entirely since the 1980's.
>
     If including Speech seems like the way to go, someone could check for
stocks of speech ICs from TI, OKI, etc..

 
 ....

> > > And if there are, are they "in touch"?  Are they willing to spend
> > > $50?
> >
> >  $50 seems too high to expect much in the way of sales.
> 
> It will be hard to get a PC board, chips, assembly, and test under $50.

     Shouldn't be all that hard. Get 10 people at A2Central, a local club,
... to sit around and do stuff like check the incoming chips in a board on a
IIe, assemble the cards, inspect & test the cards in a IIe, etc.. Maybe their
pay could be getting one of the finished Mockingboards. Maybe they can pick
some item sold by A2Central. Maybe some of the A2Central bosses work for
free. Whatever.

     There's not that much to a Mockingboard. Without the power amp outputs
and controls (which was a bad idea anyway) it's nearly all ICs plus the RCA
output jacks.

     A2Central could sell the board and parts as a kit for $19.95 and the
assembled board for $29.95.

 ....

> >
> > "C=64's in joysticks"? Did you mean someone tried to sell C-64
> > joysticks?
> 
> No, I mean a single-chip version of a C=64 in a joystick case.
> 
> They were intended to retail for $30 (huge quantities, Chinese
> manufacturer), but were being sold off by KB Toys (and others)
> for $10.
>

     That's kind of neat. Evidently, some people have gotten into the thing
and managed to connect a PC KB and a disk drive.

http://www.jammingsignal.com/c64/aic/64dtv/images/DSCN0846.jpg

 
> Apparently, there wasn't as much mass-market nostalgia as expected.

     Of course. Nostalgia has long been an over-rated selling point when it
comes to computers. In so far as nostalgia may be a factor, it's mostly going
to be a situation which involves using a real C-64.

     Most current C-64 users already have the 30 games included in the
Joystick64 and play them on a real C-64 or emulator. Had the product come
with plugs for PC KB, disk drive, 2nd joystick, serial I/O, and VGA monitor
plus an 8MHz speed switch, it could have sold decently at $39.95 to just
current C-64 and emu-only C-64 users.


> 
> > As for examples of making decent money selling a new product to vintage
> > computer owners, I do not know of any. So far, it doesn't look like 
> > anyone has made a serious attempt.
> 
> I think the attempts have been about as serious as the potential
> market warrants.  I think you underestimate both the heterogeneity
> (one product won't have much of a market) and the "niche-ness" of
> retrocomputing.

     Clearly, the market for an Apple II Mockingboard is restricted to Apple
II users. Not much confusion about that.


> 
> Collectors will pay real money for "originals" but couldn't care
> less about new add-ons for retro machines.  And "users" love their
> old machines, but are either not in touch, or are not willing to
> spend much.

     Without having something to be in-touch about, it's hard to say how many
are in-touch or potentially in-touch.

     Definitely, in general, they/we are not willing to spend much. 

> 
> The combination of effects is that "saleable value" is not
> concentrated in a few places, easily addressed by limited efforts;
> instead, it is spread all over the place in very small pockets,
> with very few justifying the effort to design, build, distribute,
> and support new products.
> 
> There are a few examples of people identifying a "pocket"
> opportunity and doing so with some success--the CFFA card,
> the RAM4GS, and CiderPress are examples.  But I think their
> creators would hardly call them a "business success"--more
> like a break-even labor of love.

     Again, we are in very murky territory. From the start, virtually all
Apple2 products, hardware and software, were priced high, way above cost (or
potential cost) per unit. It's the main reason such a large market existed
for the C-64.

     Selling the new Mockingboard for $29.95 ($19.95 for the kit) would be a
significant break from the usual pattern.


> 
> Hey, if you think that the "breakthrough retrocomputing
> product" is right around the corner, more power to you--but
> I don't think that the evidence supports that view.
 ....

     There seem to be two kinds of retrocomputing market. One is composed of
all the Apple II, C-64, Atari, etc. niches. An efficient producer could do
well with relatively small runs of various products targeted at the niches.

     The other market is mostly untouched. It's the market for high
performance computers which reestablish the retro idea of user control and
relatively simple programmability. These new machines do not need to be
compatible with Windows or the net; we have PC's for that. 


Rubywand