Re: What about an Apple Gamebase ?

["Laine Houghton" <laine@intergate.com>]

I'm going to top post because what I have to say pails to the length below.
It's kind of a unique period of time but not without past experiences to
guide us.

It strikes me that the discussion sounds like the argument of squatter
rights.

 http://omniknow.com/scripts/wiki.php?term=Squatter_rights





"Sean Fahey" <a2fan@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:cbF8d.1431$Lk3.654@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com...
>
> "Rubywand" <rubywand@swbell.net> wrote in message
> 4162FEF1.191B79B3@swbell.net">news:4162FEF1.191B79B3@swbell.net...
> > Sean Fahey writes ...
> >
> >      To legally qualify as "theft", something of value must be taken.
> Oldie
> > software is generally considered to have no significant market value to
> the
> > rights holder. Freely distributing or downloading oldie software does
not
> meet
> > the tests for loss established by statute relating to copyrights. There
is
> no
> > crime.
>
> What tests? In whose judgment? Isn't that an assumption? Not to nit here,
> but if you take something you aren't entitled to, whereas the author or
> publisher hasn't surrendered their rights or changed the terms of
> distrbution of said item, how is that not potentially theft? I say
> potentially, because we are speaking in the hypothetical, and conditions
may
> not be the same for all situations.
>
> >      15-20 years ago, when the software was being sold by SSI, Origin,
> etc.,
> > illegal distribution was only one reason for cracking.
> >
> >      Another reason was for purchasers of originals to have a backup
> (which is
> > allowed by law). Some copy protection schemes which are critical about
> things
> > like alignment and timing eventually lead to disk failure.
>
> True, true... but how many people made a legal backup of their software
and
> then said, "Hey, I'll upload this to the local BBS for safekeeping, but
> before I do, I'll put a little blurb for my own BBS, "Pirate's Cove" with
a
> phone number so other people like me can send me their backups!"
>
> C'mon, I was one of those kids - we traded with just about everyone - our
> sole purpose was to collect as many programs and games as possible so we
> could be the biggest, baddest collectors. We also had a technical interest
> in seeing how everything worked, but it was mostly for prestige and
bragging
> rights and because we didn't have any dough to buy Karateka. Being a
> teenager in middle school, without a job and only about $10-$15 a week
> (which we spent on floppy disks or D&D stuff) made buying software tough -
> we had a "stick it to the man" attitude.
>
> >      Check the news.answers ("USENET") FAQs. Every known Apple II source
> for
> > oldie commercial software is listed along with links. For sure, finding
> the
> > FAQs is a snap. Once there, it would take, maybe, a couple hours for a
> company
> > rep to track down any listings of the company's A2 software and fire off
> > "Please remove ..." messages to archive admins.
> >
> >      Any software rights owner who wants software removed from A2
archives
> can
> > do it easily and cheaply.
>
> Well, I did say "no one cares".
>
> >      There may be a few guys swapping copies of currently sold IIgs
> software;
> > don't know. Otherwise, in 2004, there's no such thing as "Apple II
> piracy".
>
> Eh, well I did see a couple of bootlegged copies of currently shipping
> commercial CD-ROMs (Syndicomm stuff) being sold at a local retro-computing
> swap meet last year.
>
> >      Your premise is false. A company which keeps silent on free
> distribution
> > of its oldie A2 software does not give up its rights.
>
> I agree but thats not quite what I said - a company that fails to defend
> it's copyrights will be in a weaker position if they later choose to
> excercise their copyright. That premise is one I have personal experience
> in.
>
> >      Depends. Companies are often willing to move oldies to public
> domain-- so
> > long as someone in a company can guarantee that it still owns the oldie
> product
> > and the status change is not too much of a hassle.
>
> Wish more of them would go to the effort.
>
> >      On the other hand, it's unlikely that a company would risk losing
> control
> > of any brand names, etc. relating to current releases. For instance,
> Origin
> > would probably not want to place the original "Ultima I" in public
domain.
> >
> >      In general, the best stance for a company is to have no stated
stance
> > about free distribution of its oldie wares. It derives the benefits of
> having
> > its name and the name of some game series, etc. promoted; and, it
retains
> all
> > of its rights.
>
> Thats not how most businesses "think" about their property.
>
> >      That is a popular argument in some places. The "abondonware" idea
> never
> > made much headway here, at least in the sense of affecting ownership.
> There
> > seems to be no strong legal grounds for asserting that doing nothing
> equates to
> > giving up ownership.
>
> I only brought up "abandonware" because I see it used a lot... as you
said,
> it's a popular argument in some places.
>
> >      The Apple II community is pretty consistent about supporting
> ownership
> > rights. If anything, owners and developers here probably have more say
> about
> > where and under what conditions software may be listed than anywhere
else.
>
> I can't (won't) comment on that - I've seen both sides of the coin, er,
> argument...
>
>