Re: Commodore 64 kills APPLE II

[steve@dosius.zzn.com (Dosius)]

Rubywand <rubywand@swbell.net> wrote in message news:<3E53F036.8989A6E2@swbell.net>...
> "Michael J. Mahon" writes ...
> > 
> > Rubywand wrote:
> > 
>  ....
> > >
> > >     Via the major for-PC emulators, you get a good sampling of 8-bit A2
> > >displays but, at best, a 'just fair' sampling of 8-bit A2 sound.
> > 
> > Agreed--but AppleWin and Apple Oasis (which I use regularly) work
> > reasonably well.
> >
> 
>      AppleWin using the "PC Speaker (translated)" sound setting seems to be the
> best for-PC choice for sound. (Don't know about for-Mac emus.)
> 
>      Even so, neither AppleWin nor Apple Oasis is very good with sound in most
> of the old software. Both emus frequently distort tones or miss them
> completely. Neither emu does any good when it comes to two-voice music.
> 
>      Failures on single-voice tones can be largely eliminated by doing a PEEK
> at $C030 followed by a delay before calling the tone routine. (Don't know why;
> just something noticed during a recent realA2-->emuA2 program conversion.)
> 
>  
> > >Even so, sure, C-64 has much better sound than the built-in 'old Apple II'
> > >sound of 8-bit Apple II's. (C-64 had better sound than the IBM PC, too.)
> > 
> > Both the Apple II and the PC had a "1-bit" speaker port.  The PC could at
> > least generate a square wave tone without using the processor.
> 
>      Which is, really, a good example of PC designers outsmarting themselves.
> Years later, Disney had to include an amplifier add-on for the Printer port in
> order to get good digitized sound to go with their software. (Worked great,
> too.)
> 
>      Evidently, for-PC A2 emus have to sample $C030 access and convert the
> information to tones for a sound card or to square wave duration settings for
> the speaker. That seems like a lot of hassle. Maybe we'd be better off toggling
> a bit on the Printer Port going to a cheapo amplifier add-on.
> 
> 
> > 
> > The 8-bit Apple II's can only flip a toggle wired to their speaker, so
> > generating good sound is quite a trick--but it can be done, at the cost
> > of monopolizing the processor during the process.  With sufficient
> > finesse, sampled sounds can be played with good quality.  See my .sig.
> >
>  ....
> 
>      Agree. If an early '80's design wasn't going to use a decent programmable
> sound generator IC for sound, the best alternative is the route Apple chose.
> 
> 
> 
> Rubywand

<plug type="shameless">
Dapple and Dapple ][ do basically what the Apple ][ did and flip the
PC internal speaker on and off rapidly.  I think most other DOS emus
do the same.  (BTW, I think Dapple ][, and ApplePC's PC speaker mode,
have dead-on sound.) </plug>

-uso.