Re: My First Computer (was Computing Editorial)

[steve@dosius.zzn.com (Dosius)]

Glen <lpepicel@nycap.rr.com> wrote in message news:<3E441853.90004@nycap.rr.com>...
<snip>
> Well I think one big thing is that you want to avoid compilers because 
> you will have 90% of the "questions" be the same: "why doesn't this 
> compile".  Programs that don't compile frustrate adults and children alike.

Then again wouldn't "I type 'RUN' and it beeps at me and says '?SYNTAX
ERROR'" be the same thing?

> 
> Basically you need a language that has distance from the hardware. 
> basic does but a lot of 'real' languages do too.  Unless you are tying 
> to teach how hardware works you should give your beginner a break and 
> let him think about hardware latter.
> 
> I have a lot of opinions about whats wrong with schools but I don't want 
> to offend too many people :)

I have lots of opinions too. :)

> 
> At the time an Apple II was an expensive piece of hardware.  The school 
> at great cost (they had a lot of Apple IIs) bought the tools at expense 
> to the taxpayer but never used them correctly.
> 
> I don't know a lot about kids. I'll be the first to admit.  So I don't 
> know the right age to start programming.
> 
> But I do think that some of these games that aren't even meant to be 
> educational actually are more educational than a lot of what goes on at 
> school.  [LOOK AT THAT I'M ON TOPIC AGAIN!]  

LOL

> I still remember dicussing 
> how not to get lost in RPGs mazes with a friend.  If you always turn the 
> same way you will be able to just do a 180 and follow that wall back to 
> the start point.  (Useful if you end up in a hedge maze in the snow like 
> in the Shining).  This may be why some more difficult games like bard's 
> tale have spinners on the floor.  

Zork II did, too, IIRC.

> Some of the more complex RPGs and 
> strategy games force kids to think creatively to finish the game.  Even 
> a recent game Amoured Core 3, which is just a robot shooter, forces you 
> to think.  I was just playing AC3 a couple weeks ago and was forced to 
> take a strategy break (coffee and walking the dog) to think out a way to 
> beat a difficult board.  (Turns out you can just increase your firepower 
> and win with brute force -- but I was still forced to take the break).
> 

:)

> 
> Its been said that 'war is the ultimate game' which is why so many games 
> 
> are about war.  It has 'minimum rules' and maximum depth of strategy.
> 
> Nalan Brushnell was talking about this in an interview on the Atari
> Redux (ps1 etc.).  This is an explaination of why almost all early games
> are war games.
> 
> In school when I was a kid they baned video games from the computers
> from the computers unless they were "educational".  So they would
> bane a highly complex sci-fi game with lots of depth of play for a mind 
> numbingly simple game with a history theme.  I thought this was stupid 
> when I was 12 and I *know* its stupid now :)
> 
> Glen.

We played "Test Drive", "Mario Bros." and "Arkanoid Revenge of DOH" on
our school computers.  The teachers even brought (pirated?) video
games from home. ;)

-uso.