Re: ANN: Web Browser for 8 bit Apple //

[chris@CosmicWolf.com (Chris Morse)]

On 4 Apr 2002 16:43:02 -0800, julian814@hotmail.com (Ralph Glatt)
wrote:

>chris@CosmicWolf.com (Chris Morse) wrote in message news:<3cac049b.353978874@news-east.newscene.com>...
>> 
>> Lynx only works with the Apple //GS, right?
>
>Lynx is what is used when you are connected to a shell account. Any
>Apple // can use Lynx. Unfortunately, it's a text-based web browser.
>> 
>> You're not alone in your want for a "connected" //e.
>
>I prefer to use my //c. ;-)

Yes, I would definitely want support for any //e or later; I
wouldn't go too far out of my way to support a vanilla 48k II/II+.
As it stands now, the only Apple I own is a //c.

Read below for more on this..

>> 
>> I've been working on re-learning all my Apple //e past;
>> mainly assembler and the memory/device/function mappings
>> on the //e.  I hope to write some "useful" applications
>> for myself & the A2 community at large.. (or small, as
>> the case may be..)
>
>It certainly seems as if we're a small community, especially those of
>us still using 8 bit machines. Most of the software that's been
>written over the past few years has been for the GS. I hope to change
>that, soon.

It seems there are a few people around, but not many.  I would 
guess that there are a few "lurkers" who are capable but don't have
the time or interest to tackle this.

>> 
>> Has anyone looked at uIP (pointed out by a previous poster)?
>> http://dunkels.com/adam/uip/
>
>I think we all saw it, and were excited!!!

Ditto!  More below..

>> 
>> I haven't looked at it closely yet, but I wonder if anyone 
>> has looked into the possiblity of porting it to the Apple //.
>
>I have the same hopes!

I read up on uIP this afternoon.. More below..

>> 
>> I have a background in internet programming, but mainly at
>> the application level- eg, BSD sockets and WinSock.  I've written
>> web, ftp, pop3 and numerous "custom" servers, and a lot of
>> clients.. 
>> 
>> uIP has already been ported to the C64, obviously, so I imagine 
>> it's just a matter of writing the necessary drivers for the //e, like
>> a driver for the super serial card.  I'll have to look into
>> uIP's docs and source to understand what needs to be done.
>
>Would it be possible to use the //c as a baseline model? Most //e
>owners have their computers souped up to at LEAST those standards, and
>besides, I'd like to be able to run this on my //c!

Yes, though from what I read at Intrec.com, the *original* //c had
some problems with its serial port.  I just bought my //c off of eBay
recently and haven't even booted it up yet-- not for lack of want, but
my fiance will yell for hours at me if i bring another computer into
this already tiny & cramped apartment.  We won't be getting a house
until a year from now, so most of my development will be done through
an emulator; I'll set up my //c in some corner at work for real
testing.

>> 
>> Is anyone else working on this?
>
>As far as I know, no one. I was afraid I'd have to do this myself, but
>if someone with more experience in programming is willing to take on
>the burden, I won't mind. ;-)

So you're willing?? =) I wouldn't mind working with a few other
people.  I'll send off some e-mail after I post this.

>> 
>> I've wanted to do something like this for a while; ever since
>> I saw the web page for a *really* small TCP/IP implementation
>> done by someone at UMass..  Not sophisticated, but the entire
>> implementation was on the order of 256 or 512 bytes of code.
>> Unfortunately, the creator was not sharing those magic numbers.
>
>Well, we'll have to work with what's available. I'll help out where I
>can, but I'm afraid I'm new to working in assembler. My joke pretty
>much outlines what I'd like to see, but I'm not sure we can fit all
>that on a double sided 5.25" floppy. I know where there's some
>software that can convert gifs into something viewable on a //e, I'll
>see if we can get permission to use it. Might not help much, though,
>since most websites use jpgs, jpeg, or better. Keep posting here on
>your progress, please!! If you want to contact me, use the email
>address rbg at penn dot com.
>
>Ralph Glatt

As I said before, I read the documentation (not the source code yet)
for uIP; it looks quite promising.  I just downloaded and installed
the cc65 compiler and I'm playing around with that.  

Here's my thoughts on uIP & the Apple //e (or //c, //c+) right now:

(1) uIP supports SLIP (Serial Line Internet Protocol), but it does not
support PPP.  PPP would be required for probably 99% of all of todays
standard dialup service providers; we would have to implement it
ourselves as a device driver beneath uIP.

(2) uIP requires only 4 functions to be implemented on the target
machine; these are relatively trivial routines for doing calculations
and need to be implemented for speed/performance reasons.

(3) uIP is ultimately "driven" through a periodic timer.  This timer
would basically be an interrupt/IRQ that fires *at least* once a
second. (The docs weren't clear on that; the source code for
uip_periodic() might reveal more.)  Anyhow, I assume that extra
hardware will be required in order to pull it off.  When I owned my
Apple //e back in the 80's, I had purchased a card called the
"TimeMaster II/HO".  It would generate, if I remember, 24 interrupts a
second.  What else can generate timed interrupts?  I'll have to
research this, but maybe a mouse card and maybe a super serial card (I
don't know how, but I seem to recall reading something to that effect
in the last week or so.)

(4) The original //c had serial problems.  I might have that kind of
    //c sitting in my office at work.  I found that out here: 

  http://www.intrec.com/proterm-a2/a2_tips_tricks/a2_iic_telecom.txt

(5) I'll need some time to get back up to speed on all this!  That,
plus I am still collecting all the resources I can find on programming
the Apple //.  ROM routines, Peeks & Pokes..  Just last night I got my
joystick control functions working.

Lastly, I started a web page for Apple // programming; not much there
right now, but as time goes on I will add to it.  Tonight I will add a
link to a message forum that can be used for talking about
programming, uIP and the like.

Here's my URL:  http://www.cosmicwolf.com/AppleII/AppleII.htm

Cheers!
// CHRIS    chris -!AT!- CosmicWolf -!DoT!- com