Re: Apple II/e newbie - please help

[Phoenyx <quazar@dcnet2000.com>]

Starflight wrote:
> 
> Thanks, Phoenyx, for all this information.  Between you and
> Rubywand, I am beginning to learn a few things.

Even though I have been using the II for a long time, I still
remember being a beginner. I live in the boondocks and getting
Apple info was next to impossible at the time. I have also found
that I will always be learning something new with the II's. They
are such an interesting system with so many possibilities. They
are also one of my favorite subjects. :-)

> I have bookmarked Byteworks along with a few other hardware
> sites I have come across.  As soon as I know exactly what I
> need, I can get the parts ordered.

The file sites mentioned by Jeff can be quite useful too. Esp'
for learning Applesoft. I have found the best way to learn it
is reading other's programs. Like you, I have problems with C,
I can program in it but I can get lost with an experienced C
programmer's code, especially when they use the short style and
less structured code. I find I prefer the C systems on the II
much more. I suppose I should get back to my Hyper C project but
I have so many other things I want to do that I get sidetracked.

> You are correct.  Typing PR#3 worked exactly as you stated.
> Is that an initialization command or something?

Basically, IN# and PR# are used to set the I/O hooks while in
Applesoft. For Dos and Prodos, the command can be called in
the program by printing a control code. In the case of Dos,

10 print chr$(13);chr$(4);"PR#3"

and Prodos,

10 print chr$(4);"PR#3"

the only difference, DOS sometimes has trouble reading output
unless the system is on a newline. I'm not sure if I'm
explaining this correctly, but it's reasonably close. BTW, later
models of the II allowed lowercase input and converted it to
uppercase. If you get errors trying these examples, set the
caps lock key.

This whole explanation itself may be confusing to a recent II
convert. Basically, the Apple II uses two zero page addresses to
control the I/O of the system. It's a rather ingenious method
actually since the system can easily change the output from the
screen to a printer or an 80 column screen or a modem or...
Likewise, the input can be swapped from the keyboard to a disk
drive or a modem or...

The Woz is a genius (IMHO). He found many ways to combine
functions like this to reduce the chip count and the cost of
making the system. His ideas are what make the system so much
fun to use. Although the current crop of programmers would be
confused by all the information needed to create programs as
compared to today's systems. Sure, they need to remember a lot
more routines, but many of the current programming environments
help out in many ways. We have to do most things the long and
hard way. Much more fun. :-)

> I also got out a flashlight and found that down the back side
> of the card, it says AIIE 80COL.  I don't know about the extra
> 64k of memory, yet.  I have what may be the part number on the
> card to research this with.

You can quickly tell if the card has extra ram by checking for
a bank of ram chips. Or as Jon mentioned, the size of the card.
Prodos also will let you know about this by creating a 64k ram
disk and setting a variable in it's global page. The latter may
be a bit much for you to worry with right now though. :-)

> >For Prodos, you will need a utility disk. Unlike Dos 3.3,
> >ProDos can't init a disk. There are many sites with Apple II
> 
> So should I get a copy of both Dos 3.3 and ProDos?

Absolutely! Dos 3.3 is usually better for early learners since
it is generally easier to operate and it is tightly interfaced
with Applesoft. Plus many of the older books you may find are
based on Dos 3.3 systems.

Prodos on the other hand, is much easier for executing a
variety of programs. Especially if you have a hard disk, 3.5
floppy or a large ram disk. As mentioned, it was designed with
large media in mind, even though there was not very much large
media available at the time. Granted, there are ways to make
Dos 3.3 work with 3.5 drives and large ram disks, it is a bit
complicated to explain and best left for another time.

> >you need a serial card, preferably a Super Serial Card. You
> >may have this already. I don't know what input that printer
> >requires offhand. You will also need a null modem connection.
> >This is all described in the FAQ's at Rubywand's site.
> 
> I haven't located information, yet, on the Prowriter printer. 
> I do know that the printer interface card is a Grappler+ by
> Orange Micro, the printer cable has 26 pins, and there are
> four on-off dip switches on the card.  I doubt this tells you
> much, though.

Yes, a very popular interface when it came out. Unfortunately
the parallel port was never quite accepted as a standard in the
II world. Likewise, no one has made a transfer program which
can use it either. I know very little about the II parallel
ports, but they may be unidirectional which would make a link
connection impossible.

I still suggest you set up a serial connection first. Since you
don't have a Super Serial Card, it should be the first piece of
hardware you purchase along with the cable and null modem. You
should be able to find the SSC on Ebay, the cable and null modem
are a different problem. You can get the null modem connector
from Radio Shack. I generally build my own cable and eliminate
the null modem. You can find the info in the FAQ's and the
hardware at Radio Shack. They have the solderless cable parts
which makes things very easy.

This setup will come in very handy. Not only can you use ADT for
transferring disks, you can use terminal programs to transfer
SHK files and such between the Apple and another system. I'm
assuming your other system is a PC from what you have mentioned
here. In this case, I suggest you check out the emulator system
Apple Oasis. You can find a link to it from my page. This system
has some tools for manipulating files and disk images. It also
has Apple software which lets you share disks between the Apple
and the emulator. If you enjoy making cables, it has a disk
server which is similar to a network server and transfers files
from the PC parallel port to an Apple joystick connection. It
includes the info for making the serial cable and the joystick
cable. I still use this method for preparing disk and file
transfers between systems. Perhaps I have gotten used to using
it, but it seems much easier to me than trying to manipulate the
files on an Apple II completely.
 
> Is Applesoft an easy language to learn?  I have tried C and
> C++, but I can't seem to comprehend them.  I can put a system
> together, diagnose and repair it, but I can't seem to grasp
> the programming languages.

Yes, Applesoft is very easy to learn. At least for simple stuff.
It can get as complex as you want and even use machine level
code if necessary. Some caution is advised, Applesoft doesn't
car a wit about structured code and will allow you to create
programs which can be difficult or impossible to read. It will
generally take a large program to do this but it is something
to remember. You will find many tools to help with programming.
I suggest you get a copy of Program Writer and doc's from the
Beagle Brothers collection. It has been released as (c) freeware
and is a very handy program. Basically, it lets you edit your
Applesoft programs in a manner similar to word processing.

If you plan on programming much, you should join the newsgroup
comp.sys.apple2.programmer. This is the preferred place for such
conversations. The traffic is generally slower than here but it
is generally read by most of us who do program.

> I started out teaching myself to build the newer systems
>  simply because I wanted a fast one for myself.  I am now
> working my way backwards learning about and fixing the older
> systems.  The more I learn, the more interesting it becomes.

For me, this has always been the way it was in the Apple II
world. I am constantly learning something new. I also started
by assembling PC's for myself. It began with using older
hardware which was given to me by a friend in the tech
department of a company that I knew. My first PC was a 6 mhz
80286 IBM system which I built from cast off parts. :-) I gained
a lot of hardware experience doing this. Once I started a BBS
I was always looking for cheaper ways to squeeze a little better
performance. At that time I would have done just about anything
for the hardware I have now. :-)

> The monitor/screen (or whatever the proper term is) that I
> purchased with the system is made like a very small TV.  It
> connects just as you describe.

Screen or monitor will do. Practically every monitor used was
made this way. Later, people came out with RGB adapters and of
course the GS had it's own type of monitor. I use a Magnavox
monitor on my 2c and an Apple composite monitor on my 2e. If I'm
playing a game with the family I will sometimes use the
television.

> I didn't know that.  How interesting!  This I will definitely
> have to learn more about.

There are many interesting things to learn. Many of which are
on the net. I don't have the url for the X-10 info, but here's
an interesting site on the robot info.

http://rich12345.tripod.com/

Enjoy!

-- 

Thank you for your time and interest. I hope it was helpful
or at least interesting.

Phoenyx,

Apple2 user since March 1984

Links to Phoenyx's pages:
preferred..... http://zip.to/Phoenyx_A2
alternate..... http://www.tinyangeldesigns.com/Apple2