Re: Net piracy?

[rwifall@NMSU.edu (Richard Wifall)]

Just clearing some things up.. Sorry the reply took so long, but I've
been hanging out with some cool Apple II people.  (I'll be posting an
article about ICONference hopefully later today, but it's only about
half done right now.)

In article <30hm88$f3n@bmerha64.bnr.ca> jeffr@bmerha2a.bnr.ca (Jeffrey Robertson) writes:

   In article <30f0ne$pmk@blackice.winternet.com>,
   Richard Wifall <rwifall@NMSU.edu> wrote:
[A whole line of attributions nuked.  Basically if you see a line that
is anti-piracy it probably can be attributed to me, if you see a line
that is pro-piracy it can probably be attributed to jeff.]

[I said:]
>   >I don't give anyone anymore credit then I
>   >feel they deserve by reading their posts.
>   Then you must be used to people feeling insulted by your comments.
>   Assume a base level of competence in people, and then adjust your
>   estimate based on observations.  Personally, I set that base pretty
>   high for people I meet on the net.

	The only people that are used to feeling insulted by my comments
are the ones that I am intending to insult.  (Usually in a flame war)
If I didn't feel like I had a good idea of what kind of credit I felt
they deserved then I probably wouldn't be responding to them.  I might
also point out that I don't give anyone any less credit then they
deserve either.

>   >>   Is there anyone else stupid enough to think this is my position?
>   >[This is great.. Lets take a look at a another post by Jeff]
>   >>This law really is a case of the 11th Commandment (Thou Shalt Not Get Caught.)
>   >>If you're not caught, no crime was committed.
>   >	You say that I "am stupid to think this is your position" and
>   >then you go and say that it _IS_ your position in a different post?
>   >Holy split personalities Batman!
>   >
>   >(I apologize for actually reading peoples posts.  I realize that you
>   >don't, but someone has to do it.)
>
>   Let's try to avoid slander, shall we?  The so-called 11th Commandment is

	Oh my the hypocrites abound.  I sincerely apologize for using
more style in calling you "stupid" and "clueless" instead of just
outright saying it like you did.

>   meant to apply at all times.  (e.g murder's OK; don't get caught.)
>   But copyright law works that way.  Copying copyright material is legally,
>   if not morally, OK as long as you don't get caught.  

	I think you meant that the the 11th commandment is _not_ meant
to apply at all times.  Otherwise I have idea what the heck you are
talking about.  Somehow this selective determination of what should
and shouldn't apply really bugs me.  Probably because someone has to
decide what it does and doesn't apply to.  It reminds me of say,
taxing the rich and not the poor. (Hi Jawaid!)
	So basically what it boils down to is that you are calling me
stupid because I am unable to read your mind and figure out that you
don't really mean what you say.  You only mean half of what you say.
I'll keep that in mind in the future.		

[Defending copyright infringemnt stuff removed here. Read the original
article]

	There is one fundamental flaw with your arguement.  That thing
is intellecual property.  Aspirin was just a product name.  A book,
software program, song, etc. is intellectual property.  Something that
was physically created.


>   As I've said before, trying to map copyright law examples into "real
>   world" examples is almost impossible.  But to give it another go:

	Copyright laws are real world.  You are merely trying to
justify breaking the law.  Its that simple.

>   copyright infringement is a whole separate issue.  My position:  pirating
>   a lost classic is OK; pirating "living" software never is.

	The interesting thing here is who defines what is living and
what isn't.  Obviously you believe that you are able to make that
definition.  I don't agree (obviously I think).  For instance, a
fellow posted that you can't by pac-man and Noah was quick to point
out that you can indeed buy pac-man.  Now by that fellow's definition,
pacman was a "lost classic".   He also was obviously wrong.


>   >>   I'm sorry, I've tried to be civil in my posts on this topic, but this guy
>   >                                                                     ^^^^^^^^
>   >>   is clueless.  My whole argument is based on the simple _fact_ that

[more stuff nuked, read the original articles]

>   >with you.  I'm sorry that my arguements are apparently so effective
>   >that you must resort to calling me names.

>   I didn't call you any names: I said you were uninformed.  We're back to

	Excuse me, but calling me "clueless" and "stupid" (up above)
is calling me names.

>   the question of "is pirating copyright violation or theft?".  See my preamble.

	And my arguement is that it is irrelevant.  It is still
illegal, and therefore both legally and morally wrong.

>   >[A bunch of stuff nuked here that wasn't flame bait (Amazing isn't it?)]
>   Oh come on.  I'd like to think that I'm addressing this issue
>   calmly.  Your previous post got me frustrated, but I hardly flamed you.

	Calling me stupid and clueless is definately a flame in my
book.

>   I'd be interested in knowing if other readers feel the same way.

	I would too.  I think I know some that agree with me.

[oops, I nuked the disclaimer]
>   copyright lawyer would know "a lot".  I include disclaimers like
>   the above to show intellectual honesty, and to solicit clarification
>   from people who _are_ experts in the area.

	You should also include a disclaimer that says something to
the effect of:

	When I'm calling the following person clueless and stupid it
	really is because it is that time of the month.  I really just
	_think_ he might be clueless and stupid and I could actually be
	the one that is clueless and stupid.


>   >Richard Wifall - rwifall@nmsu.edu - http://starship.nmsu.edu:6502/

[Stuff nuked saying that he has wasted the newsgroups time.  I agree ;)]

>   Jeffrey Robertson                    |  jeffr@bnr.ca  |      BNR, Ottawa

But hey.. It was fun while it lasted.
--
Richard Wifall - rwifall@nmsu.edu - http://starship.nmsu.edu:6502/