Re: Apple II on ebay. Real or fake?

["jsnospam@cimmeri.com" <js@cimmeri.com>]

There are obviously shades of gray here on how to define an Apple II.
This is becoming a similar conversation to definining planets and
whether Pluto is one or not.

As with vintage cars, you have the true stock originals that are
restored to factory spec.. and you have everything from there on out..
from slightly changed cars to radically reworked rides.

I agree with Michael.. the best collector Apple II is a pre A2+ unit,
with original mobo, roms, keyboard, black label A2S1 serial number, A2
lid, maybe even original power supply (or at least power supply color
of gold).   When you have these components, there is no doubt as to
what you have.

I would define second rank as those II's made or sold after the
existence of the A2+... that appear to share some A2+ parts.. namely
keyboard, later revision mobos, etc... but that give every suggestion
of not having been appreciably modified so would still have correct
Roms, lid, and likely A2S1 serial number.

I would define third rank as A2+s that appear to have started life as
an A2 -- they retain an A2S1 serial number but now have A2+ roms,
mobo, maybe even lid.

All others, I would define as equal in rank to a 2+ from a collector
point of view.

----

To address Capybara's remarks:
<< 2.  Obviously, we can't rely on motherboard revision now, thus
memory  jumps, edgecard connector types, ram types. >>
###  this does not logically follow. all these are valid physical
evidence. ###

*** Read Michael's comments in the thread re later revision mobos.***


<< 3.  Likely can't rely on game I/O socket color either. >>
### why not?. this too is valid physical evidence. ###

*** See Michael's comments re later revisions.   While helpful to pin
down a mobo revision, it's not a sole determiner of A2-dom.***


<< 4.  Obviously CAN rely on ROMs. >>
### since it was so common to "upgrade" an A][ to applesoft,
is it not still an A][ ???  perhaps the correct description would be
"A][ with applesoft ram." ###

*** It's no longer a pure II.. and doesn't function as a II when
turned on...so would fall into the rank3 as defined above.  The Roms
are a huge part of what makes a II a II. ***


<< 5.  What about keyboard?   If all II's were manufactured early,
then keyboards would have retained that early tall power light.. but
if  made into 81, II's and II+'s both would have had the flat power
light. >>
### again, most of the internet and most to this group will agree
A][ = tall power light, A2+ = flat power light. ###

*** I'm willing to bet that A2's made prior to A2+ had tall light;
whereas any 2's made/sold after 2+ had the same keyboard. ***


#### ... what would u make out of this:  someone has an A][. the
motherboard and keyboard fail. they drop in a motherboard and keyboard
from an A2+. it has applesoft ROM. a white game I/O socket, a flat
power light, etc. how do we describe this machine?
"A][ rebuilt with A2+ parts" ??? ###

*** From a collector standpoint, I would rank it tier 3 as defined
above. ***

~ J