Re: irc -appleiigs

[belgo@berg.org (Chris Shepherd)]

Toby Reiter (str4552@OBERLIN.EDU) wrote:
: You're not really getting it. Even though few of you choose to have 
: anything to do with the Apple II, it is a double standard when those who 
: are in comp.sys.apple2 and fly off the handle when anyone posts a 
: non-topic post to a csa2 newsgroup also fly off the handle when someone 
: posts an Apple II post in #appleiigs.  Why? Because the number one 
: defense used when someone is attacked for flaming when a newbie posts 
: off-topic in csa2 is "They should know what the group is about from the 
: name."

Good point. This is true, and a few of us do actually try to help with Apple
II[GS] problems. When approached in a non-confrontational manner, I too will
use every resource at my disposal to answer a question or two.

: Well, maybe I should rephrase that. Objectivism happens to appeal to 
: people who are generally uncaring, elitist, and uncaring. Perhaps its not 
: the intention. I'm not saying that all Objectivists are this way, but just 
: that a lot of people choose to be so because parts of the general philosophy 
: fit their egotistic, apathetic personalities.

Hahahaha, that is very true.

: No.  There is a difference between helping another person and giving away 
: services. This is one thing I've noticed about Objectivists as well--they 
: tend to not be able to see this separation. When I help a friend set up a 
: login.com file, or talk to someone I don't know for half an hour on their 
: concerns over getting into my college these are choices I make to aid 
: another person not because I feel it will improve my social or economic 
: conditions, but because it makes me feel good inside (improving my 
: emotional and spiritual conditions).

[ some snippage ]

: Here are my final words:
: Whether or not you are interested in furthering the Apple II platform, 
: you should understand that the people in #appleiigs represent some of the 
: most knowledgeable Apple II users around.  You should also understand 
: that this is a time of upheaval in the Apple II community--we are trying 
: to define what it means to be using these computers 10+ years after they 
: were created. We need all the resources we can get, and this channel 
: represents some of the best resources available. For the II user without 
: access to Genie or Delphi, there are very few opportunities to talk to 
: other Apple II members in a "chat" atmosphere.  In fact, #appleiigs is 
: the only irc channel I have found which has consistently high numbers of 
: users.  The last few times I checked, #appleII was not even open at 
: Undernet.  Therefore, it makes sense that normal Apple II users would 
: desire to enter the #appleiigs channel (as natural as a Mac user joining 
: #macintosh). If you don't want to have to deal with this, form a new 
: channel, otherwise I or anyone else should have the perfect right to join 
: your channel.

I appreciate the way you're attempting to debate logically. I also agree
with a large part of what you're saying in this paragraph. Although I have
already disclaimed my affiliation with Apple II's previously in this
thread, I do note the need for a friendly atmosphere among Apple II users.
Perhaps the greatest misunderstanding arises from the fact that once you
become a competant computer user, you also tend to bring with you a few
shreds of purist ideology (ie, we hate IRC scripts, we hate many graphical
environments, GS/OS, X, and NeXTStep excepted, etc.) I do imagine that in
the eyes of many people this comes off as a deliberate attempt to alienate
or otherwise act, ah, elitist. Just work with us though, there are many
good reasons for, and benefits to the purist attitude. :)

-Chris