Re: Apple 2 Where/How much

[labelas@hotmail.com (Labelas Enoreth)]

<sigh>
Ah well, I tried... 
In a finishing remark, I will just state once again that value is in the
eye of the beholder (ok, so I mangled that, but oh well.) I mean really.
All of your points are valid, in their own areas.
Supertimer, you have a personal established value for setups that you can
conceive, whether in concept or ones that you've assembled yourself.
Whether other people will pay that much or agree with that value is up to
their own preferences. Someone could very well say 'geez, I don't need all
that for the IIgs, do you just want to sell it without most of that?'.
Personally, as far as I've seen, modern setups like that are generally
assembled by someone who isn't really planning to sell it, or if they are
they already have a target in mind.
A much more likely 'bundle' of hardware would be, as stated before, dated
peripherals like an ImageWriter, an Apple Personal Modem, an AppleColor
RGB monitor, a SCSI card with a 120Mb external HD...But I am not trying to
dispute you. A bundle such as you have described could be worth that to a
buyer, if they were interested in obtaining such 'modern' trappings from
the get-go. But truly, before I came on here, the only IIgs systems I ever
heard of or saw had much more...classic...setups.
And honestly, other than a bunch of us on here, most people with a IIgs
are not that interested in such modern conveniences. When I showed
resources to purchase a SCSI card and HD, a SuperDrive, an
accelerator...for my friend's IIgs that he's had since the beginning (and
they were quite reasonable), he just laughed, remarked something about
"polishing a turd" and informed me that _any_ money spent towards a
computer would be towards the eventual day when he got a 'real' computer.
(he's since gotten a <insert name of random pentium-based w98-running PC
here> and apparently chucked his IIgs, which saddens me [I would've taken
it] but hey, that's the way things happen...it's just...life. For a
'couple hundred dollars', someone can spend towards a 'much better
computer' in their opinion, why sink so much into a 'dying machine' that's
not much less than a conversation piece or toy to mess around with every
once in a while? I mean, I don't agree with this, but honestly, other than
us diehards who truly appreciate it, it does seem a bit absurd to sink
more than 'a couple bucks' into a 10 year-old machine that hasn't had any
new commercial software (in a meaningful sense, I don't really want to
hear about the odd company or ten that still churns out Apple II software
to this day) out for it, nothing 'new and useful'...no updates to the
OS...no..jeez, dunno....Microsoft software <shudder>...it's just the way a
lot of people view it when they look at it in terms of 'usable' rather
than 'appreciation and usability'
Anyway, those people that do so are not evil Apple-haters, it's just that
many people see a computer as a tool and nothing more. Just because it's
fun, innovative, useful or even upgradeable to this day doesn't mean that
they want to put anything extra into it. It had it's day and it's time to
move on to other things. One can still do all the old things that you did
on it back then with what you have now, the requirements haven't really
changed since then...however, if they are truly interested in making it
their main computer, then yes, a HD, more RAM, a processor upgrade...can
make it more useful. However, these are fringe needs...I was perfectly
able to do everything I ever needed to do on a IIgs with 2 3.5s, 2 5.25s,
and 1Mb of RAM back in the day. The fact that I want to 'make it the best
that I can' is what makes me want to upgrade it with various things. Not
the need to make it usable with today's standards and even dare I say it,
competing with other low-end computers.
I hate to start ranting like this, but the way some people go on about the
IIgs lately, you'd swear that a IIgs is utterly useless without a RAM
upgrade and HD because it won't run GS-Office 98 or something. The needs
are justified by the person with the computer. Hell, they may just want to
do nothing but run IIe games on it all the time, in which case all they'd
need is 2 5.25s and a minimal amount of RAM.
Just because _my_ concept of a good IIgs has a big HD, a nice fast
accelerator, 8Mb of RAM, the PCT with ColorSwitch, slots packed with tons
of useful cards...(maybe even a Second Sight with nice big monitor, who
knows? never even seen one, much less seen one in usage)
doesn't mean that everyone else with a IIgs would like to have the same
configuration, or spend the money to have such a setup. They may just want
to run AWGS 1.1 and maybe Arkanoid every once in a while. And even I would
rather go find the majority of my 'additions' through searching and
scouring, and liberating unappreciated Apple IIs...and then slap on
whatever modern extra HW I have laying around that might be applicable if
I wished...rather than buying it all as one unit as a 'dream computer'
Anyway, I guess I'll wrap this up...I know there's more I wanted to say,
but I've forgotten the rest after typing all of this...if it's really
meaningful, I'll post it...but I probably won't need to. And sorry if I
got a bit vehement.
Everyone just needs to realize that unless it's the most erroneous load of
crap that has ever been spoken (like running windows 95 on a PCT or
something), it  could very well be a valid point to them. Or at least a
valid _opinion_. Repeating yourself with all the justifications in the
world will not make someone who does not share your opinion suddenly
embrace it. You may beat it into them until they can comprehend your side
of the story, but that will not make them any more likely to share your
beliefs. And when two people share personal opinions, there really is no
wrong or right unless there's a proven fact as well. And then it wouldn't
be an opinion, no? Telling someone how wrong they are, or how right you
are isn't going to help things. Arguing over the hideousness/beauty of
Second Sight displays, HFS vs ProDOS, MP3 compression, analog vs
digital...aside from some given facts, the rest is applied opinions.
Smacking someone on the nose with a rolled up bundle of your opinions,
with a smattering of facts, will not make them accept your opinion. Facts
are a given but everyone has their own way of seeing and accepting
benefits and limitations.


PS: Oh, and back when I first came on here with a slew of questions about
some Apple II cards I found and was wondering their uses, whoever it was
that informed me that the Apple High-Speed SCSI Card ("Sandwich II") was a
'regular serial card, like the super serial card', and that they would be
glad to take it off my hands for a 'fair' price or maybe a trade of some
other stuff...well, if you were trying to misinform me, may your IIgs
burst into gentle non-destructive-to-anything-but-itself flames. If not,
well then, hey, I guess it wasn't a serial card, eh? Sorry to randomly
drift off like that guys, in this...zealous post...but I just ran across
that email again and it bugged me.