Re: ANN: Retiring from A2 world - Good Bye All!

[Stephen Shaw <stephen@apple2.org.invalid.za>]

On Thu, 13 Jun 2002 08:13:37 GMT, Gary R. Utter wrote:

> In article <3D082833.3030303@home.nl>, Ruud Dingemans <rtech@home.nl>
> wrote:
>
>> In fact, it's kinda the point. The Commodore 64 was in the same
>> situation, piracy all over the place, and that certainly didn't kill it
>> either (obsolescence and Commodore did).
>
> And what was the difference between the Commodore 64 and the Apple II
> in that regard? Both had rampant piracy, but the Apple II had Turley.
> If anything, you are helping to make my point. :)
>
>> > I think you are either being delibertely obtuse or you are a moron.
>
>> Now you're getting into personal abuse, like it happened here so many
>> times before, just because someone came to another conclusion than you.
>
> He does not come to a different conclusion than I do. He talks about
> something else entirely as if that were what we were discussing. This
> leaves two possibilities, either he is doing it deliberately, to make
> me angry, or he has a very limited level of intelligence. I suppose
> saying "spade" when a spade appears counts as abuse where you are from.
>
>> Correction: he WAS talking about *todays* market, while you chose to
>> reply with regard to the situation of ten years ago.
>
> INcorrect. I WAS talkign about the situation of ten years ago, and he
> chose to reply with regard to the situation of today, which is exactly
> why I accused him of being deliberately obtuse. He's either playing
> stupid, or he's not playing.
>
>> > Of course there is no money in it, but I'm not arguing against piracy,
>
>> Hm, I have some doubts about that...
>
> Look, the piracy arguement is a whole other ball of twine that I have
> no interest in getting involved in. The original discussion (go back to
> the beginning, willya?) was about the fact that Tom is unpopular with a
> lot of people Paul refers to as "haters". I have explained that Tom is
> hated for real and specific reasons, and he chooses to say that those
> reasons are irrelevant because the Apple II is a dead platform.
>
> YOU seem to have half a grasp of what I am saying. Let me try to
> explicate it more clearly.
>
> Whether the II is a dead platform or not doesn't matter.

Agreed. But are you enthusiastic about the Apple II platform? If the answer is
yes then you are in the right newsgroup.

 Whether there is any money to be made writing Apple II software or not doesn't
> matter.

Agreed. But if I write Apple II software today I wouldn't want any money for
it.I'd rather share it with a bunch of fellow Apple II lovers rather than risk
piracy by charging money for it. Remember one thing that while Apple software
was being written in the 1980s and early 1990s the two biggest complaints were
high price (explained by the software houses as being a result of overheads,
blah,blah) and the very real possibility that a blown 5.25" disk could lead to 
your business being out of action due to no accounting package/CAD program etc.
When you consider I am about 10,000 miles away from the U.S.A. where I could
(laughably) get a replacement disk in how many days why "piracy" flourished
here - and,no, UPS and FedEx were not very well represented here in those days
so couriering the blown disk was not a feasible proposition either.

   Whether it was a wise decision to continue to try to make a> living writing
Apple II software after 1990 is irrelevant.

Agreed.

 What we are> (or were) talking about here is why Tom is hated in what seems,
to a> newcomer like Paul, to be an unreasonable manner.

I was never 'harmed' by Tom (he helped me out with advice from time to time)
so I still say happy retirement to Tom.

>
> I gave the reasons why a lot of old timers really REALLy don't like
> Tom. Anyone who has been around the Apple II community for 15 years
> knows that the things I said are true. The fact that the II was not
> really a viable platform when based on a 65c02 or a 65816 is a SIDE
> ISSUE that has nothing to do with the topic that we WERE discussing,
> until Paul tried to shift it onto ground that was more comfortable for
> him.
>
>> > It has nothing in
>> > particular to do with the world today, and everything to do with the
>> > world of a decade ago. It's a grudge match, a vendetta,
>
>
>> Yeah, and one that should've died ages ago, I'd say. Let it go. You'll
>> sleep better.

Agreed. 100%. This is one to let sleeping dogs lie.

>
> I sleep fine. And I am not one of the Tom haters. I don't give a damn
> about Tom one way or another. I'm only trying to answer the question
> that was asked in the beginning of this discussion. WHY some people
> don't like Tom.

A bit overdone (the dislike) considering the length of this thread of which I
am an offender :)

>
> Still, I think this place would be better off without him. He is the
> main catalyst for the whole anti-piracy fued, and THAT has been ripping
> this place apart for years.

And if you ignore the feud and get one with promoting and supporting the Apple 
II instead?


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