Re: ANN: Retiring from A2 world - Good Bye All!

["Gary R. Utter" <utter@syndicomm.com>]

In article <3D082833.3030303@home.nl>, Ruud Dingemans <rtech@home.nl>
wrote:

> In fact, it's kinda the point. The Commodore 64 was in the same 
> situation, piracy all over the place, and that certainly didn't kill it 
> either (obsolescence and Commodore did).

And what was the difference between the Commodore 64 and the Apple II
in that regard? Both had rampant piracy, but the Apple II had Turley.
If anything, you are helping to make my point. :)

> > I think you are either being delibertely obtuse or you are a moron. 

> Now you're getting into personal abuse, like it happened here so many 
> times before, just because someone came to another conclusion than you. 

He does not come to a different conclusion than I do. He talks about
something else entirely as if that were what we were discussing. This
leaves two possibilities, either he is doing it deliberately, to make
me angry, or he has a very limited level of intelligence. I suppose
saying "spade" when a spade appears counts as abuse where you are from.

> Correction: he WAS talking about *todays* market, while you chose to 
> reply with regard to the situation of ten years ago.

INcorrect. I WAS talkign about the situation of ten years ago, and he
chose to reply with regard to the situation of today, which is exactly
why I accused him of being deliberately obtuse. He's either playing
stupid, or he's not playing.

> > Of course there is no money in it, but I'm not arguing against piracy,

> Hm, I have some doubts about that...

Look, the piracy arguement is a whole other ball of twine that I have
no interest in getting involved in. The original discussion (go back to
the beginning, willya?) was about the fact that Tom is unpopular with a
lot of people Paul refers to as "haters". I have explained that Tom is
hated for real and specific reasons, and he chooses to say that those
reasons are irrelevant because the Apple II is a dead platform.

YOU seem to have half a grasp of what I am saying. Let me try to
explicate it more clearly.

Whether the II is a dead platform or not doesn't matter. Whether there
is any money to be made writing Apple II software or not doesn't
matter. Whether it was a wise decision to continue to try to make a
living writing Apple II software after 1990 is irrelevant. What we are
(or were) talking about here is why Tom is hated in what seems, to a
newcomer like Paul, to be an unreasonable manner. 

I gave the reasons why a lot of old timers really REALLy don't like
Tom. Anyone who has been around the Apple II community for 15 years
knows that the things I said are true. The fact that the II was not
really a viable platform when based on a 65c02 or a 65816 is a SIDE
ISSUE that has nothing to do with the topic that we WERE discussing,
until Paul tried to shift it onto ground that was more comfortable for
him.

> > It has nothing in
> > particular to do with the world today, and everything to do with the
> > world of a decade ago. It's a grudge match, a vendetta, 


> Yeah, and one that should've died ages ago, I'd say. Let it go. You'll 
> sleep better.

I sleep fine. And I am not one of the Tom haters. I don't give a damn
about Tom one way or another. I'm only trying to answer the question
that was asked in the beginning of this discussion. WHY some people
don't like Tom. 

Still, I think this place would be better off without him. He is the
main catalyst for the whole anti-piracy fued, and THAT has been ripping
this place apart for years.