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Re: ANN: Retiring from A2 world - Good Bye All!
Gary R. Utter wrote:
In fact, it's kinda the point. The Commodore 64 was in the same
situation, piracy all over the place, and that certainly didn't kill it
And what was the difference between the Commodore 64 and the Apple II
in that regard? Both had rampant piracy, but the Apple II had Turley.
Erm, well... so your argument amounts to "both had pirates and both were
ultimately out of a market, but we had one big pirate so we were worse
off than the C64 with all it's smaller ones?"
I mean, the end result was kinda the same - and inevitable, since Apple
and Commodore both decided to open new markets and focus on new hardware
instead. Which tends to have the unfortunate side effect of leaving the
older machines behind.
Let's face it, piracy was not the death of the AII market and it won't
be the death of what's left now. Like I said, people who want to see
*new* AppleII stuff will generally be willing to pay (reasonably) for
it, being enthousiasts 'n all.
Now you're getting into personal abuse,
saying "spade" when a spade appears counts as abuse where you are from.
Abuse is not appreciated on Usenet no matter where you're from. That's
what Email was invented for ;)
INcorrect. I WAS talkign about the situation of ten years ago, and he
chose to reply with regard to the situation of today,
Erm, no - the argument started with today's situation ("glad/bad that
Turley's gone") and then several persons turned to the stone age past
(again) to revive arguments that should've and could've been buried eons
ago.
no interest in getting involved in. The original discussion (go back to
the beginning, willya?) was about the fact that Tom is unpopular
Doesn't sound a lot like past past tense to *me* ;)
hated for real and specific reasons, and he chooses to say that those
reasons are irrelevant because the Apple II is a dead platform.
Well, he's right in the sense that it's not much use spewing or reviving
these old grudges in an era where it doesn't matter anymore.
We understand WHY it happened, but since the reasons for the grudge
(pirating profitable AII software) are basically irrelevant *now*, it's
not needed to go on grudgin' *now*. Just let it rest.
The fact that the II was not
really a viable platform when based on a 65c02 or a 65816 is a SIDE
ISSUE that has nothing to do with the topic that we WERE discussing,
Well, if the fact that the platform isn't viable anymore technologically
and therefore is dying anyway is ignored, it's more than just a side
issue, I must say. Piracy speeding things along - but like I said, the
C64 thrived among pirates all along - is possible, but not the deciding
factor.
about Tom one way or another. I'm only trying to answer the question
that was asked in the beginning of this discussion. WHY some people
don't like Tom.
Well, I think that point was explained just fine, but it has to be said
it has been explained and drilled a thousand times before in this group,
so diggin' it up again ain't bringin' all that much improvement. Just
more needless debate.
Still, I think this place would be better off without him. He is the
main catalyst for the whole anti-piracy fued, and THAT has been ripping
this place apart for years.
It wouldn't have "rippled" as much if his opponents had been a little
less uptight about it, I must say. Whether there was a Tom or not,
things would've been pirated anyway. He gave it a face, but he certainly
wasn't the worst (mass-piracy for big profits was and is much worse),
and he didn't singlehandedly kill the platform, either. He just pissed
some programmers off by acknowledging he was sharing whether it was
allowed or not.
The debate is so old, starting from the era when just about *everything*
was still in the public domain - the Homebrew era - and everybody
shared, untill Bill Gates and some others started making a profit and
saw that in a culture of freesharing, not everybody was suddenly doing
as they were told and not copy *their* stuff.
Regards, Rudy